# So tell me about Ben Carson... **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 2, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154 "2014-12-02T19:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/61 "2014-12-05T16:04:35Z")
[Ben Carson’s twisted appeal.](http://www.salon.com/2014/12/05/ben_carsons_twisted_appeal_riding_to_the_top_of_gop_politics_through_nazi_comparisons/) > [@](#): > > And really, conservatives who want their movement to be about something more than spittle-flecked outrage at the Kenyan socialist in the Oval Office should be embarrassed by Carson’s popularity. No one doubts that Carson has an inspiring back story and has racked up some impressive accomplishments in his life, but that’s not why conservatives love him. Nor are they feting him for his ambitious and reformist vision of small-government conservatism. They throw their support behind him and fantasize about his ascension to the White House because he says nasty things about Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/62 "2014-12-06T06:42:21Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Next month, Houston’s Second Baptist Church is sponsoring the[If My People Conference.](http://www.second.org/ifmypeople.aspx) Why does that name sound familiar? Oh, [right](https://www.christcenteredmall.com/stores/art/sweigard/if_my_people.htm). Anyway, Carson’s a nonstarter for any significant office, let alone president. He’s had a very distinguished career---- he’s an accomplished pediatric neurosurgeon who was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom— but he’s in his early 60s, never held public office, has no legal training, and has no political visibility besides being on Fox news for a couple of years. It’s patently ridiculous to treat him as a serious presidential candidate. (A better question is why such an otherwise competent and distinguished person would want to devote himself to something as masturbatory as political commentary. He was literally saving lives; and while 63 is possibly a bit old to perform surgery, it’s not like he has nothing to offer medicine. It’s not like he even needs the money either.) ---
**Author:** ![EndlessEntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f9ae1b/32.png) [@EndlessEntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EndlessEntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/63 "2014-12-06T17:42:37Z")
His latest move was advocating cops to “shoot for the leg.” [Carson: Cops Could Be Trained to Shoot For The Legs](http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2014/11/26/Carson-Cops-Could-Be-Trained-to-Shoot-For-The-Legs) If I didn’t previously know he was a world renowned neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins, I would have thought he was a remarkably stupid man (at least in some areas). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/64 "2014-12-06T18:10:50Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I respect the man, and _some_ of his views. > > (For example, the first paragraph quoted in Post #3 is spot on. Absentee father-ism is greatly contributing to a lack of respect for authority. **Carson, raised by a single mother with something like 13 other children, would know from experience what fosters such distrust and disrespect for law enforcement.** ) > > Many other views, however, are astonishingly ignorant. The bolded part strikes me as bollocks. Unless you are saying that Carson distrusts and disrespects law enforcement, but even that doesn’t seem to be the case since he’s a successful neurosurgeon and not an unsuccessful criminal. ISTM that the only thing Ben Carson would know about is what it takes for a single mom to raise a kid who doesn’t distrust and disrespect law enforcement. Why would you think he has any experience at all with what fosters distrust and disrespect for law enforcement, characteristics that, AFAIK, he himself does not exhibit? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/65 "2014-12-06T21:43:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Why would you think he has any experience at all with what fosters distrust and disrespect for law enforcement, characteristics that, AFAIK, he himself does not exhibit? Because he grew up in a community rife with father abandonment and witnessed firsthand how his peers compensated for it? It’s rather like saying a Russian ex-patriot is unfit to criticize Communism, because he himself is a capitalist. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/66 "2014-12-07T05:12:03Z")
He has some sort of infomercial running; I’m not really sure what it is. A couple weekends ago it was on the basement tv when I woke-up. He reminded me of a black Ron Paul- medical doctor who at least courts the religious fundamentalists/creationists (and in both cases I wonder how much of that is personal belief vs. political calculation) AND he kept going on and on about HSAs as the solution to the healthcare crisis. I was familiar with his name/story because I remember reading/learning a lot about him in elementary school in the 1980s. I don’t remember for sure if we read a book/autobiography or if he was just part of some unit in science class or something else. Until his recent emergence as the latest celebrated black conservative, I hadn’t really though about him in 30 years. Never new or cared about his politics, just knew he was a gifted surgeon… or something. My general opinion is that anyone of any accomplishment should probably stay out of politics and avoid lowering themselves like that, regardless of ideology. Just browsing his Wikipedia to job my memory: I don’t know if he was generally well-known and discussed in schools in the 80s, or if that had something to do with our relative proximity to Johns Hopkins. Maybe the cojoined twins thing got him a lot of press, too. Seems “Gifted Hands” was in '92- so maybe I was thinking of that. I just know for sure he came up in a science class or something else during that time period. Maybe it was just Scholastic. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/67 "2014-12-07T13:11:10Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Because he grew up in a community rife with father abandonment and witnessed firsthand how his peers compensated for it? > > It’s rather like saying a Russian ex-patriot is unfit to criticize Communism, because he himself is a capitalist. I think you mean “expatriate?” I don’t know, I’ll go with statistics over anecdote any day. His experience in a particular community at a given point in time hardly supports his sweeping generalizations about the causes of black crime. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/68 "2014-12-08T10:48:31Z")
Non-politicians express bizarre beliefs, as a rule. Professional politicians also harbor such beliefs but are usually savvy enough not to express them in public, plus they hire good handlers to tell them what to say and what never to say. Ben Carson’s accomplishments prove he’s sane and intelligent beyond any reasonable doubt, but he’s clearly not ready to run for high office. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/69 "2014-12-08T12:15:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ben Carson’s accomplishments prove he’s sane and intelligent beyond any reasonable doubt, but he’s clearly not ready to run for high office. No they don’t – they prove he’s very skilled in one area, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to “sane and intelligent” in the larger sense. He may be intelligent, but his acceptance of Creationism and rejection of evolution demonstrates a serious flaw in his mental acuity, whatever his skills and smarts in other areas. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/70 "2014-12-08T13:50:33Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > He’s a neurosurgeon. I think he understands and respects modern science. He evidently understands the science pertaining to his medical specialty. Beyond that, his understanding is open to question. I don’t think Carson would have gotten much attention as a potential leader had it not been for the respect people give neurosurgeons. Certainly it is a demanding occupation requiring great skill. But its practitioners are capable of massive fails in other respects. Carson [isn’t even the only neurosurgeon](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Michael_Egnor) who’s prominently fallen into the pit of being anti-evolution. And for wacko neurosurgeons, it’s hard to beat [Russell Blaylock](http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2013/04/505-russell-blaylock.html). I’d also be wary of embracing the idea that a skilled surgeon has the empathy to be a great leader. Quite a few surgeons have, by necessity, [cultivated traits of sociopaths.](http://www.carlsword.com/ideas/psychopaths.html) _"Or if you are a brilliant neurosurgeon, ruthlessly cool and focused under pressure, you might, like the man I’ll call Dr. Geraghty, try your luck on a completely different playing field: at the remote outposts of 21st-century medicine, where risk blows in on 100-mile-per-hour winds and the oxygen of deliberation is thin. “I have no compassion for those whom I operate on,” he told me. “That is a luxury I simply cannot afford. In the theater I am reborn: as a cold, heartless machine, totally at one with scalpel, drill and saw. When you’re cutting loose and cheating death high above the snowline of the brain, feelings aren’t fit for purpose. Emotion is entropy—and seriously bad for business. I’ve hunted it down to extinction over the years.”_ Yes, that’s who I’d want as President. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/71 "2014-12-09T02:08:53Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > I think you mean “expatriate?” > > I don’t know, I’ll go with statistics over anecdote any day. His experience in a particular community at a given point in time hardly supports his sweeping generalizations about the causes of black crime. Okay, so, throwing aside Dr. Carson’s first-hand anecdotes, what do the statistics say about crime rates among fatherless children? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/72 "2014-12-09T02:22:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ben Carson’s accomplishments prove he’s sane and intelligent beyond any reasonable doubt, but he’s clearly not ready to run for high office. Sane and intelligent people don’t think the world is six thousand years old. You gotta pick two. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/73 "2014-12-09T03:05:48Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Sane and intelligent people don’t think the world is six thousand years old. I’m sure many sane and intelligent people give the matter no thought at all. (Not every intelligent person needs to be any kind of an intellectual, that’s as much a matter of taste as ability.) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/74 "2014-12-09T04:20:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m sure many sane and intelligent people give the matter no thought at all. (Not every intelligent person needs to be any kind of an intellectual, that’s as much a matter of taste as ability.) I’d say not giving something any thought doesn’t mean you’d assert it as true. I’m sure it’s possible that a confluence of circumstance could make a sane, intelligent person into a creationist. But IMHO, that sort of person has such colossal credulity that they shouldn’t be allowed to be in power. The kind of gullible dolt that is all three of the above, is gonna believe whatever tickles him, no matter the facts. That’s the sort of person who bombs countries based on _intuition_. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/75 "2014-12-09T14:37:15Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Okay, so, throwing aside Dr. Carson’s first-hand anecdotes, what do the statistics say about crime rates among fatherless children? I don’t know. Happy to look at whatever you’ve got, though. ---
**Author:** ![EndlessEntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f9ae1b/32.png) [@EndlessEntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EndlessEntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/76 "2014-12-09T18:24:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Non-politicians express bizarre beliefs, as a rule. Professional politicians also harbor such beliefs but are usually savvy enough not to express them in public, plus they hire good handlers to tell them what to say and what never to say. > > Ben Carson’s accomplishments prove he’s sane and intelligent beyond any reasonable doubt, but he’s clearly not ready to run for high office. What accomplishments? He’s done his job as a neurosurgeon and made some milestones in the field, but correlation doesn’t imply causation. He’s a brilliant _surgeon_ with some absurd beliefs and a habit of making hyperbolic statements. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/77 "2014-12-09T19:37:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Carson has two huge disadvantages: > > 1. Liberals don’t like him. > 2. People who dislike black people wouldn’t like him. 1. People who are not crazy-stupid wouldn’t like him. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/78 "2014-12-10T00:46:40Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Sane and intelligent people don’t think the world is six thousand years old. You gotta pick two. So I take it you would decline his services as a neurosurgeon. Why would anyone entrust their lives to an insane and idiotic neurosurgeon? THe problem a lot of you seem to have is that you fall for politicians who are very skilled at acting intelligent. But really they are no different than an actor playing a genius on TV. Very few of these people are more knowledgeable than the average person, and it always comes out whenever they give unscripted interviews. They fall back on talking points at best, demonstrate extreme ignorance at worst. Their intelligence doesn’t generally extend beyond remembering their lines. Ronald Reagan should have proved once and for all what politicians were made of intellectually. No one ever accused Reagan of being a genius, but arguably no one played the role of politician better than he did. Ben Carson, on the other hand, is an actual genius who doesn’t know what he can say in public and what he can’t. Hasn’t hired good handlers yet. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/79 "2014-12-10T00:53:06Z")
> [@EndlessEntropy](#): > > What accomplishments? He’s done his job as a neurosurgeon and made some milestones in the field, but correlation doesn’t imply causation. He’s a brilliant _surgeon_ with some absurd beliefs and a habit of making hyperbolic statements. There’s a reason that rocket science and brain surgery are cited as examples of things you need to be a genius to do well. I mean, many of you swooned over Barack Obama editing the Harvard Law Review and giving one good speech. His intelligence has been fawned over ever since, even though it’s never translated into the ability to oversee the executive branch. Granted, Carson doesn’t have that skill set either, but at least he’s actually as smart as people say he is, because he’s worked in a field where if you aren’t actually that damn smart you won’t succeed. Politicians can fake it and arguably the best politicians aren’t the smartest ones, but the ones that fake it best. How many nuclear physicists in Congress? I think one: Rush Holt. Anyone considering him for President? No, because he’s above faking that he knows things that he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/80 "2014-12-10T00:58:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s a reason that rocket science and brain surgery are cited as examples of things you need to be a genius to do well. > > I mean, many of you swooned over Barack Obama editing the Harvard Law Review and giving one good speech. His intelligence has been fawned over ever since, even though it’s never translated into the ability to oversee the executive branch. > > Granted, Carson doesn’t have that skill set either, but at least he’s actually as smart as people say he is, because he’s worked in a field where if you aren’t actually that damn smart you won’t succeed. Politicians can fake it and arguably the best politicians aren’t the smartest ones, but the ones that fake it best. How many nuclear physicists in Congress? I think one: Rush Holt. Anyone considering him for President? No, because he’s above faking that he knows things that he doesn’t. There are lots of different types of intelligence. Carson might be lacking in critical thinking skills, or he might be unwilling to challenge notions like various religious beliefs, or something else. But if someone is well educated but denies evolution, then something is wrong with the way they think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154.md?page=5)