# So tell me about Ben Carson... **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 2, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154 "2014-12-02T19:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/101 "2014-12-12T12:54:49Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Is that sort of like how liberals were adamant that Obamacare would bend the cost curve downward even though a basic understanding of economics would lead one to understand how asinine an assumption that was? > > By the way… Argumentum ad populum? Well, the cost curve HAS bent down because of Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/102 "2014-12-12T13:13:48Z")
I truly hope he runs-just for the political nonsense he’ll spout. I believe he’s an excellent surgeon, shown by his record, but now that he’s on the waning years of being a surgeon, he’s making the mistake of believing some right wing suck ups that he can be a politician. His crazy talk will do him in, sooner rather than later. The GOP primary season is always the funniest season of all! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/103 "2014-12-12T14:04:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > (Carson) doesn’t “believe” in evolution by natural selection, thinking there must be some diving intervention. It should be noted, however, that he is hardly alone in holding those view in the US-- he is in the majority. Carson doesn’t just reject the idea of evolution without divine intervention - he is on record as refusing to believe in evolution period (as in his statements about how complex structures like the brain and eye just couldn’t have evolved, because, well, they’re so complex and he finds it unbelievable. That would seem to place him _in the minority_ of Americans based on [this recent Gallup poll](http://www.gallup.com/poll/170822/believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx), in which 42% of Americans were creationist, while about 50% accepted evolution (with or without divine intervention). Regardless, I would like to have presidential candidates capable of rising above mainstream (or near-mainstream) stupidity. It’s a shame that the physicians who are touted as having at least an outside chance at the Republican nomination don’t seem to have a solid grasp of science, much less the wherewithal to succeed as President.\* \*here’s looking at _you_, Rand Paul (who belongs to [a fringe society](http://archive.courier-journal.com/article/20100924/NEWS0106/309240084/Rand-Paul-part-AAPS-doctors-group-airing-unusual-views) of physicians that is deep into HIV/AIDS denial, opposes vaccination and has entertained the notion that Obama was elected by a “cult” because of his ability to hypnotize people). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/104 "2014-12-12T14:06:48Z")
Just because someone can get into med school doesn’t necessarily mean they can’t be dumb asses- as evidence I present Rand and Ron Paul. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/105 "2014-12-12T17:04:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Carson doesn’t just reject the idea of evolution without divine intervention - he is on record as refusing to believe in evolution period (as in his statements about how complex structures like the brain and eye just couldn’t have evolved, because, well, they’re so complex and he finds it unbelievable. Your conclusion does not necessarily follow from your premise. One can believe in “descent with modifications” but still think God had a hand in the “modification” part. I have not seen any statement from him that proves him to be a YEC. If you have one, I’ll happily change my mind. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/106 "2014-12-12T17:22:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Your conclusion does not necessarily follow from your premise. One can believe in “descent with modifications” but still think God had a hand in the “modification” part. I have not seen any statement from him that proves him to be a YEC. If you have one, I’ll happily change my mind. Check out [this link](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-carson-evolution-absurd-myth-give-me-break).: > [@](#): > > He claimed that “no one has the knowledge” of the age of the earth “based on the Bible,” adding that “carbon dating and all of these things really don’t mean anything to a God who has the ability to create anything at any point in time.” That’s a pretty solid indication that he doesn’t trust the dating methods that tell us the age of the earth (because, I guess, God could have created the earth with all the radioactive decay that would indicate an old earth already in place). On the brain and eye: > [@](#): > > Carson pointed to the “complexity of the human brain” as proof that evolution is a myth: “Somebody says that came from a slime pit full of promiscuous biochemicals? I don’t think so.” He said evolution is unable to explain the development of an eyeball: “Give me a break. According to their scheme, it had to occur over night, it had to be there. I instead say, if you have an intelligent creator, what he does is give his creatures the ability to adapt to the environment so he doesn’t have to start over every fifty years creating all over again.” Taken together, it seems pretty clear he rejects (and, according to these comments, doesn’t understand) the concepts of both evolution and an old earth. Which sounds like a YEC. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/107 "2014-12-12T20:30:11Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Is that sort of like how liberals were adamant that Obamacare would bend the cost curve downward even though a basic understanding of economics would lead one to understand how asinine an assumption that was? Your understanding of basic economics isn’t sufficient to make that claim. The ACA is lowering the amount of increase. If you’re gaining a pound a month, and a diet shifts that to a pound every three months, is that diet helping? Similarly, the ACA is lowering the amount of increase. This is one of those basic economic things that you should understand before commenting. > [@](#): > > By the way… Argumentum ad populum? In what way is a large group of actual experts an argument by popularity? I get that you read that someplace and thought you were being all fancy with the Latin and all, but it doesn’t apply. If anything it’s an appeal to authority, but it isn’t, because the people involved are actual authorities in the subject at hand. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/108 "2014-12-12T22:35:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Check out [this link](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-carson-evolution-absurd-myth-give-me-break).: > > That’s a pretty solid indication that he doesn’t trust the dating methods that tell us the age of the earth (because, I guess, God could have created the earth with all the radioactive decay that would indicate an old earth already in place). > > On the brain and eye: > > Taken together, it seems pretty clear he rejects (and, according to these comments, doesn’t understand) the concepts of both evolution and an old earth. Which sounds like a YEC. I’m just not satisfied with quotes taken out of context and then with links that don’t actually go to the original source. Since he seems to think that creatures have “the ability to adapt to the environment”, that would imply an acceptance of descent through modification. He seems more like an Intelligent Design proponent, not a YEC. It would be good to see the original source of that interview. I googled and googled and googled, but came up empty handed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/109 "2014-12-12T22:43:04Z")
OK. [Here is a youtube link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PnwoDM-8xU) with at least some of that interview. At about 2:20 he says he believes in natural selection. So, I put him in the “God nudges evolution along” camp. Again, not something I accept, but pretty much mainstream American thought (if not mainstream neurosurgeon thought). ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/110 "2014-12-13T00:25:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK. [Here is a youtube link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PnwoDM-8xU) with at least some of that interview. At about 2:20 he says he believes in natural selection. So, I put him in the “God nudges evolution along” camp. > > Again, not something I accept, but pretty much mainstream American thought (if not mainstream neurosurgeon thought). If you listen to the rest of that video, he also doesn’t believe that the eye or brain could form. So I’d say his thoughts are muddled. He also doesn’t believe that carbon dating proves anything. Which suggests to me he’s liking the 6k year old Earth. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/111 "2014-12-13T02:06:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m just not satisfied with quotes taken out of context and then with links that don’t actually go to the original source. Since he seems to think that creatures have “the ability to adapt to the environment”, that would imply an acceptance of descent through modification. > > He seems more like an Intelligent Design proponent, not a YEC. > > It would be good to see the original source of that interview. I googled and googled and googled, but came up empty handed. He’s a Young Earth something – he dismisses modern radioactive isotope dating. Further, ID is (of course) just one type of Creationism. He doesn’t mention anything about ID in the sources I can find, though. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/112 "2014-12-13T06:25:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’d say it’s more like we’re once again done with electing an ill-equipped candidate based on what he is rather than who he is (ala Jimmy Carter) and now perhaps we can go back to electing candidates who are qualified by experience and performance to hold the office. Wouldn’t that mean electing those with good track records as presidents? Where do you find _those_ candidates? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/113 "2014-12-13T15:48:51Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If you listen to the rest of that video, he also doesn’t believe that the eye or brain could form. So I’d say his thoughts are muddled. He also doesn’t believe that carbon dating proves anything. Which suggests to me he’s liking the 6k year old Earth. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He’s a Young Earth something – he dismisses modern radioactive isotope dating. Further, ID is (of course) just one type of Creationism. He doesn’t mention anything about ID in the sources I can find, though. I agree that “his thoughts are muddled” on evolution is an apt description. But I’m not sure how you get to him thinking the earth is 6K years old when he explicitly says you can’t say how old the earth is. However, the power he ascribes to God (that he is not bound by physical laws) is mainstream Christian thinking. In fact, a God bound by physical laws isn’t really a God at all. In this sense, he’s at least consistent in his thinking about what the implications are of believing in an all powerful God. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/114 "2014-12-13T16:49:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I agree that “his thoughts are muddled” on evolution is an apt description. But I’m not sure how you get to him thinking the earth is 6K years old when he explicitly says you can’t say how old the earth is. The only reason to mention that it’s impossible to know how old the Earth is, is if you disagree with how old science shows the Earth to be. Also, Seventh Day Adventists usually go for a literal six day creation. > [@](#): > > However, the power he ascribes to God (that he is not bound by physical laws) is mainstream Christian thinking. Most Christians presumably think that physical law is how God chose express His creation. Scientists who are Christian want evolution nudged by God to end up in us. But they’re usually okay with the scope and detail of evolution. > [@](#): > > In fact, a God bound by physical laws isn’t really a God at all. In this sense, he’s at least consistent in his thinking about what the implications are of believing in an all powerful God. No, he thinks that God resorted to Last Thursdayism and put fossils in the ground to fuck with us. His beliefs, so far as his religion are internally consistent, but his beliefs insofar as his acceptance of science are variable, based on if it contradicts with his blind and unthinking adherence to his religious beliefs. That’s the point. He was exposed to tons of biology in school. I’m married to a veterinarian, I know doctors. The amount of smug delusional arrogance it would take to scoff at biology, shows that there is literally nothing, no amount of evidence that can penetrate his wall of ignorance. If he decides that Country X needs bombing, do you think the CIA can come up with more evidence against the need than there is for evolution? His level of delusion is dangerous. Most people in America think God made us. Most of those people haven’t had the advantage of detailed and in-depth training in biology. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/115 "2014-12-13T17:42:05Z")
Doctors don’t have “in-depth and detailed training in biology”. They will have had a college level Biology class (pre-med) and probably a class in cell biology and genetics in med school. But they don’t study evolution in med school. Sure, this guy has more overall education than most people, including more science education. But doctors are not biologists. They aren’t even scientists, unless they are research doctors. I agree that he has no excuse, other than his religion, for not understanding evolution or accepting it as good science. But again, that puts him in the mainstream of US thinking, not outside it. That’s all I’m trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/116 "2014-12-13T18:43:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Doctors don’t have “in-depth and detailed training in biology”. They will have had a college level Biology class (pre-med) and probably a class in cell biology and genetics in med school. But they don’t study evolution in med school. > > Sure, this guy has more overall education than most people, including more science education. But doctors are not biologists. They aren’t even scientists, unless they are research doctors. I agree that he has no excuse, other than his religion, for not understanding evolution or accepting it as good science. But again, that puts him in the mainstream of US thinking, not outside it. That’s all I’m trying to say. I agree. I wasn’t suggesting that doctors are as good as biologists. Just that they get way more biology training than the average person. And certainly enough that disbelief in evolution has to be a willful denial of what they’ve learned. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/117 "2014-12-13T19:50:21Z")
Saw this as part of a book blurb on [realbencarson.com](http://realbencarson.com): _The vast majority of Americans feel that our nation is moving in the wrong direction, but we feel powerless to do anything about it._ “Vast majority”? Sounds like a drooling victim of confirmation bias. “_I believe it, so everyone else must also_.” ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/118 "2014-12-13T23:29:45Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Your understanding of basic economics isn’t sufficient to make that claim. The ACA is lowering the amount of increase. > > If you’re gaining a pound a month, and a diet shifts that to a pound every three months, is that diet helping? > > Similarly, the ACA is lowering the amount of increase. This is one of those basic economic things that you should understand before commenting. How do you know that this “lowering the amount of increase” is due to the ACA? The answer is you do not. This is because there are a multitude of variables that go into manifest consumer prices. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/119 "2014-12-13T23:33:41Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Saw this as part of a book blurb on [realbencarson.com](http://realbencarson.com): > _The vast majority of Americans feel that our nation is moving in the wrong direction, but we feel powerless to do anything about it._ > > “Vast majority”? Sounds like a drooling victim of confirmation bias. “_I believe it, so everyone else must also_.” [65% of Americans feel that the nation is moving in the wrong direction.](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/right_direction_or_wrong_track). Does that qualify as the “vast majority”? Do you think “I don’t believe it so everyone else must also” makes one a “drooling victim of confirmation bias”? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154/120 "2014-12-14T04:11:21Z")
Do 65% agree on what the right direction would be? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-ben-carson/706154.md?page=7)