# So tell me about Mithril **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 16, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809 "2005-03-16T14:34:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/1 "2005-03-16T14:34:33Z")
I see the metal Mithril mentioned in a lot of fantasy-genre stories and RPGs. In LotR, the mines of Moria were Mithril mines. But apparently Mithril wasn’t terribly plentifu, or it was hard to work with, because Gimli describes Bilbo’s mithril shirt as a ‘kingly gift’. World of Warcraft has many metals you can mine. In the Warcraft universe, Mithril appears to be a high-quality metal, better than steel and inferior (in World of Warcraft) to truesilver, thorium, and Arcanite. I’ve heard some people use ‘mithril’ and ‘truesilver’ interchangably, which is confusing because in World of Warcraft they are different metals. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/2 "2005-03-16T14:47:42Z")
The [Barrowdowns Website](http://www.barrowdowns.com) claims: > [@](#): > > In Moria, there was also mining of mithril, a metal which was nowhere else to be found in the whole of Middle-Earth, and which soon became highly appreciated by the smiths of the Noldor. From the entry for _mithril_ at [Finduilas’s J.R.R. Tolkien Page](http://fin.go.wifl.at.org/tables/html/other.htm#M): > [@](#): > > … Mithril was called True-silver and many other names. It could be forged into a light hard substance like steel, it had the shine of silver but never tarnished. After the discovery of the Balrog, when Khazad-dum was abandoned and gained the name the Mines of Moria, most of the Mithril was gathered by the goblins and orcs inhabiting Moria and given to Sauron in tribute. By the end of the Third Age of the Sun, the only mithril items known (or named) were Bilbo’s dwarf mail, the Elven Ring, Nenya, the helms of the Guards of the Citadel of Minas Tirith. Mithril had many uses including Ithildin, as seen on the gates of Moria. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/3 "2005-03-16T15:00:00Z")
It is impossible to stain, except by means of [Root-Beer.](http://ringil.cis.ksu.edu/Swap/foxtrot-lotr.gif) > **[Mithril](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithril)** > > Mithril is a fictional metal found in the writings of J. R. R. Tolkien, which is present in his Middle-earth, and also appears in many other works of derivative fantasy. It is described as resembling silver but being stronger and lighter than steel. The author first wrote of it in The Lord of the Rings, and it was retrospectively mentioned in the third, revised edition of The Hobbit in 1966. In the first 1937 edition, the mail shirt given to Bilbo Baggins is described as being made of "silvered ... ---
**Author:** ![rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/4 "2005-03-16T15:31:32Z")
The original mithril is as mentioned a silver metal. If you want to compare which is more accurate (between the two sources you mentioned) Tolkien came up with it, so his version would be termed “more accurate” 🙂 What it was is as has been mentioned a metal that looked like bright polished silver, but never tarnished and was much harder and much lighter than steel. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/5 "2005-03-16T16:00:03Z")
According to one source, it’s as hard as dragon scales. But where this falls on the Mohs hardness scale is unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Mithril](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mithril/32/3517_2.png) [@Mithril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithril)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/6 "2005-03-16T16:33:56Z")
Nah, the joke is too easy. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/7 "2005-03-16T16:39:51Z")
Mithril lives on Rhode Island, is a Geotechnical Engineer, and collects parking tickets as a hobby. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/8 "2005-03-16T17:42:42Z")
Mithril is the best subtance there is in many RPGs, that is until you find the super-duper-more trouble than its worth-have to buy the Prima guide in order to find it-god metal. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/9 "2005-03-16T17:50:33Z")
Mithril is an invention of J.R.R. Tolkien. It is properly used and referenced only in association with his writings. If you encounter it in a setting unaffiliated with those writings, you should take its appearance as a sign that you have been encumbered with an inferior product, and seek out a competing product that reflects the actual imagination of its author. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/10 "2005-03-16T18:45:07Z")
To Kaylasdad99 - What a perfect answer. It’s the answer I was trying to come up but just wasn’t clever enough. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/11 "2005-03-16T19:44:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Mithril is an invention of J.R.R. Tolkien. It is properly used and referenced only in association with his writings. If you encounter it in a setting unaffiliated with those writings, you should take its appearance as a sign that you have been encumbered with an inferior product, and seek out a competing product that reflects the actual imagination of its author. That sounds more than a bit snarky to me. Mithril is one of these Tolkien-isms that has been adopted as an icon of fantasy in general. What exactly is ‘inferior’ about someone else using it?? One point in favor of it’s being used generally is that it’s a common reference point. If someone in a fantasy book introduces a mithril short-sword, a lot of fantasy fans will know what to expect just based on that. If the author goes and makes up his own metal (Flobotnam-ite?) he has to take the time to explain what its properties are and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/12 "2005-03-16T19:48:53Z")
In the Fellowship of the Ring, it is mentioned that the coat of mithril mail that Bilbo had from Smaug’s hoard (a gift from Thorin Oakenshield) was worth more than all of the rest of the Shire put together. Land, homes, artifacts, hobbits–everything. Yes, it is a rare and valuable substance. ---
**Author:** ![Greenback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/2bfe46/32.png) [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/13 "2005-03-16T19:50:28Z")
Mithril is one of the few defenses against an [18" DHIBJD](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=266235). Apologies **Stonebow** and **FaerieBeth**. I saw this thread in my subscriptions and had to find a place to reference it. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/14 "2005-03-16T20:49:15Z")
In reply to Chrisk - I guess Kaylasdad did verge on the snarky, but I still liked it. You have a good & interesting point though. When is an author’s creation considered to be well-known enough to be used so freely? Can anyone then use the term “hobbit” freely in a published story? How about “ent”? ---
**Author:** ![Spiratu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Spiratu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiratu)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/15 "2005-03-16T22:46:10Z")
> [@well he's back](#): > > In reply to Chrisk - I guess Kaylasdad did verge on the snarky, but I still liked it. You have a good & interesting point though. When is an author’s creation considered to be well-known enough to be used so freely? Can anyone then use the term “hobbit” freely in a published story? How about “ent”? You can’t use it in Dungeons & Dragons, as far as I know. That’s why the rules talk about “halflings” and “treants.” But D&D, as has been pointed out already, does include mithril, so maybe it, like “orcs”, has become an established enough fantasy convention that the Tolkien estate didn’t feel like bothering with it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/16 "2005-03-16T23:35:35Z")
Well, I didn’t really care whether it sounded snarky, to tell you the truth. It’s the facts as I see them. I don’t want any truck with intellectual properties that (mis)appropriate Tolkien’s exclusive inventions. Those include the Elven languages he designed, references to God as Eru, Maiar, mithril, hobbits, Tom Bombadil, calling wizards _istari_, Morgoth, Silmarils, Ents, and the geography of Middle-Earth. Sorry to be so dogmatic and opinionated, but IMNSHO, everything you can learn about mithril is contained within Tolkien’s writings. ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/17 "2005-03-17T00:12:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, I didn’t really care whether it sounded snarky, to tell you the truth. It’s the facts as I see them. I don’t want any truck with intellectual properties that (mis)appropriate Tolkien’s exclusive inventions. Those include the Elven languages he designed, references to God as Eru, Maiar, mithril, hobbits, Tom Bombadil, calling wizards _istari_, Morgoth, Silmarils, Ents, and the geography of Middle-Earth. > > Sorry to be so dogmatic and opinionated, but IMNSHO, everything you can learn about mithril is contained within Tolkien’s writings. As opposed to Tolkien’s lifting of the intellectual property of others? Do you refuse to read Tolkien because he lifted elves from other stories? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/18 "2005-03-17T01:10:58Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > As opposed to Tolkien’s lifting of the intellectual property of others? Do you refuse to read Tolkien because he lifted elves from other stories? Just whose intellectual property do you refer to? The varied legends of “elves” had been public domain for centuries. So had magic rings. But the Eldar, as the first-born children of Iluvatar, were definitely creations of JRRT. As was the One Ring, forged by the Maiar Sauron to subdue the Eldar. Meanwhile, Terry Pratchett has done a nice orginal work with elves, even as he pays homage to JRRT and other classic legends. But I’d still say the idea of his elves as alien parasitic sadistic overlords with a weakness for iron is Pratchett’s “intellectual property”. You talk about _lifting_ ideas, read Terry Brooks’ Sword of Shannara. Or better yet, don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/19 "2005-03-17T01:12:09Z")
As I recall from the book “Faries”, the conception of eleves before LOTR was much diffrent. WWar-like tribes of alien beings with a horrid sense of humor. See the author Mercedes Lacey for more details. ---
**Author:** ![FellowshipoftheBling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/47e85d/32.png) [@FellowshipoftheBling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FellowshipoftheBling)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/20 "2005-03-17T01:17:39Z")
I could be mistaken but i think in D&D its called “mithral” not mithril, just like balrogs are balors and treants are ents and wargs are worgs…etc. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809.md?page=2)