# So tell me about Mithril **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 16, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809 "2005-03-16T14:34:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/61 "2005-03-18T20:11:16Z")
Originality is an extremely overrated aspect of creativity. If someone writes a good novel set in Middle Earth who isn’t Tolkien, then it’s a good novel. I can accept a fiscal argument against copying other people’s work, but not an artistic one. I suspect a lot of talent that would otherwise be put to good use is wasted by writers who are worried about being “original.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/62 "2005-03-18T22:12:41Z")
> [@hazel-rah](#): > > Originality is an extremely overrated aspect of creativity. If someone writes a good novel set in Middle Earth who isn’t Tolkien, then it’s a good novel. Actually, I think it’s called “fanfic.” ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/63 "2005-03-18T22:21:33Z")
You rang? Warning: Contains teh ghey: [http://www.livejournal.com/users/cassieclaire/](http://www.livejournal.com/users/cassieclaire/) ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/64 "2005-03-18T23:45:54Z")
> [@Dan Norder](#): > > Intentionally created fiction can never be myth or legend (except in those cases where people who don’t know it’s not fiction hear about it and believe in it) and folklore is similar, though it can have fictional elements, just not ones that are spread by a large book of unchanging content, they’d have to be oral and go through generations. Perhaps I should link to this when I post to the “things accepted in your field that you have to explain to outsiders” thread. The process you describe of forgetting and mistaking is key to all transformations of tales/songs/etc to folk status. The notion that folk tales arise from the “voice of the people” or collective unconscious has been – I thought – debunked for some time now. Everything that is now folk was, at one time, the work of an author. What makes it folk is that it gets taken and reworked and retold, which is exactly what is happening to Tolkien, albeit through modern means. There is no requirement that transmission be oral, or that it “go through generations”. When people lose track of what was original w/ JRRT versus what he was borrowing from, and begin to assume that, for instance, orcs and ents were always part of the mythic landscape… and when people start using JRRT’s literary elements for their own purposes unrelated to his books, then yes, we have “new” folk material, new myth. This is not unique to Tolkien. Look at figures like Chief Seattle (Sealth) whose recorded words bear absolutely no resemblance to the many utterances attributed to him today. ---
**Author:** ![easy\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb8c5e/32.png) [@easy\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/easy_e)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/65 "2005-09-16T02:28:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And aluminum is a lot more chemically interesting than titanium, consistent with all the magical or high art uses to which it’s put in Middle-Earth. Including, incidentally, the synthesis of gemstones: Corundum (the mineral name for ruby, sapphire, and emerald) is an oxide of aluminum. You’re right about rubies and sapphires, which are corundum, but emeralds are beryls and quite soft in the gem world. Beryl does have alumninum in it, but also silicon, oxygen, and of course, beryllium. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/66 "2005-09-16T03:10:20Z")
[Amazing amount of info on Elf Armor =-Protective gear in the Lord of the Rings films](http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Article/Armor.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/67 "2005-09-16T04:16:50Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > begin to assume that, for instance, orcs and ents were always part of the mythic landscape… “Orc” is an Old English word (meaning _demon_, according to JRRT), so it could reasonably be said to be part of the “mythic landscape.” Is it wrong for other authors to take the term and apply it to an evil race of humanoids, simply because Tolkein did it? (Nonetheless, I’d be disinclined to believe any author who used the word in that way and yet claimed that they _weren’t_ influenced by JRRT’s works.) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/68 "2005-09-16T13:27:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Oooh, Lackey! My guilty pleasure! Literature from the “Beautiful, magic talking horsie will be my friennnnnnnnnnd!” school! I really liked her stuff when I was a teen. Now, it just seems pretty vulgar and silly. There are good parts to each book, but all in all I find myself skipping chapters (especially her excreble love stories). I don’t particularly like Mithril as used in Dungeons and Dragons and other settings. As is, it’s relatively cheap and ordinary, and often not even worth noting. Whereas Mithril in Tolkein was something special. You couldn’t just buy a magic sword in Tolkein, or take a day off to make another one. They were incredibly rare (even Gandalf went centuries without one). Only the elves had “magic” items, and those were not really magical but expressions of deeper natural law. But that’s a long discussion for another day. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/69 "2005-09-16T17:22:06Z")
Can mithril kill a zombie? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/70 "2005-09-16T18:08:17Z")
[The American Chemical Society](http://www.acs.org/portal/a/c/s/1/acsdisplay.html?DOC=HomeMolecule%5Carchive%5Cmotw_mithril_arch.html) entry for mithril is unfortunately rather brief, although it does confirm that the metal’s molecular structure is isomorphic to yttrium silver (as I think everyone already suspected, really). No reference to its effects on the undead, but I’d hazard a guess that mithril could probably kill a zombie, if administered in buckshot form at sufficiently high velocity. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/71 "2005-09-16T18:24:18Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Can mithril kill a zombie? Well Zombies have DR/Slashing and mitheral isn’t good at holding an edge, so I’d go with adamantium or just plain old steel. Keep the mithril for your armor. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Wing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/51bf81/32.png) [@Little\_Wing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Wing)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/72 "2005-09-16T18:47:56Z")
I have nothing to add to the mithril discussion but since many others have already mentioned Brooks, I just want to add (knowing full well I’m likely to be tarred and feathered…) that it’s surprising to me to read the venom spewed towards him. I suppose that’s because I read his books long before I ever picked up JRRT’s and never realized the sacrilege Brooks _dared_ to commit against young, naive readers. His books were the first fantasy novels I ever read and from that grew into a life-long enjoyment of the genre. Some credit should be given for that, at least. 🙂 For what it’s worth, taken without the baggage mentioned above, they’re fairly enjoyable for me. I’ve certainly read worse fantasy. _runs out of the thread, ducking rotten tomatoes_ ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/73 "2005-09-16T19:02:56Z")
[quote] I suppose that’s because I read his books long before I ever picked up JRRT’s and never realized the sacrilege Brooks dared to commit against young, naive readers. [quote] He’s a good writer and has some very good works, but tends to toss everything together as he goes aling. The \*Sword of Shannara \* was really, really shallow. It got much, _much_ better later on in the series. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/74 "2005-09-16T19:29:27Z")
re so-called writer Terry Brooks: You’re much more generous than I, Smiling Bandit. After reading the 1st Shanarra book and realizing what a rip-off of LOTR it was, I refused to read another word by that con artist. (I think he’s done quite well without me though). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/75 "2005-09-16T19:58:45Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Well Zombies have DR/Slashing and mitheral isn’t good at holding an edge, so I’d go with adamantium or just plain old steel. Keep the mithril for your armor. Whoosh! (I was referring to the fact that this thread had been dead for six months.) ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/76 "2005-09-16T20:14:13Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > He’s a good writer and has some very good works, but tends to toss everything together as he goes aling. The \*Sword of Shannara \* was really, really shallow. It got much, _much_ better later on in the series. Well, he left himself plenty of room for improvement. I quite liked the “Free Corps”, although there’s nothing especially original even about them - mostly the French Foreign Legion with a touch of Pournelle’s “Line Marines”. But the next two Shannara books I read more in hope than expectation, and the hope wasn’t that well-rewarded. _De gustibus_, however. ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/77 "2005-09-17T02:14:02Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Well, he left himself plenty of room for improvement. I quite liked the “Free Corps”, although there’s nothing especially original even about them - mostly the French Foreign Legion with a touch of Pournelle’s “Line Marines”. But the next two Shannara books I read more in hope than expectation, and the hope wasn’t that well-rewarded. _De gustibus_, however. Count me among those who don’t think Brooks is the author most guilty of perpetrating misery among fantasy fans (that honor goes to the venerable Mr. Robert Jordan). But then, I read his second series before I ever read the first (_Heritage of Shannara_? Something like that). They weren’t wonders of unique characterization, but I found them diverting. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/78 "2005-09-18T15:17:35Z")
> [@](#): > > But the next two Shannara books I read more in hope than expectation, and the hope wasn’t that well-rewarded. De gustibus, however. His next two weren’t great, I agree. But later on he wrote a trilogy, which was really quite nice. It wasn’t the greatest thing ever, and it had some annoying characters, but all in all it was a solid epic story of good, evil, and war. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/79 "2005-09-18T15:25:57Z")
In a lot of RPG games, especially Japanese ones, you don’t find mithril. You find m **y** thril. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809/80 "2005-09-18T22:03:28Z")
Quoth **easy\_e** : > [@](#): > > You’re right about rubies and sapphires, which are corundum, but emeralds are beryls and quite soft in the gem world. Beryl does have alumninum in it, but also silicon, oxygen, and of course, beryllium. Green corundum and green beryl can both be called “emerald”. Two different gemstones, same name. But I hadn’t realized that any gems other than corundum also contained aluminum, which I think strengthens my argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-tell-me-about-mithril/294809.md?page=3)