# So that happened... Whedon's “history of creating toxic and hostile work environments” **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2021, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735 "2021-02-12T08:29:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/303 "2021-03-05T20:07:19Z")
The bad thing is, that was one of his better pieces. He’s done worse. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/304 "2021-03-06T02:42:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Boo. …every time I see that my brain goes into contortions trying to figure out what the what is connected to the what and then my brain explodes. I hate that image with the intensity of a thousand white hot suns. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/305 "2021-03-06T02:44:06Z")
How do you feel about Cap’s fingerguns? ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/2/2cce17d7f0bcbf0b87bb5b45c3f9883396e1c120.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/306 "2021-03-06T02:44:48Z")
…that one just made me laugh 🤣 😅 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/307 "2021-03-06T05:06:53Z")
> Please. It improved upon Moore’s godawful Fake Telepathic Octopus from Space ending. For that alone, it deserves the Oscar. The difference is, Alan Moore has always been upfront about his dislike for superheroes. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/308 "2021-03-06T10:23:40Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > The bad thing is, that was one of his better pieces. That’s because it’s based on a photo of Arnold Schwarzenegger flexing his pecs. [https://arnoldschwarzeneggernetworth.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/f1bab421bdcff2a1d3f959d0736b1c14.png](https://arnoldschwarzeneggernetworth.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/f1bab421bdcff2a1d3f959d0736b1c14.png) Recontextualized into Cap, with the shield and without the other arm, it’s just plain wrong. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/309 "2021-03-06T19:56:34Z")
Yes, I know. Reminds me of the time I went to a tailor with a dislike for clothes. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/310 "2021-03-06T20:01:45Z")
Just plain wrong is a good description. I didn’t realize that [this famous painting](https://www.saatchiart.com/art/Painting-arnold-schwarzenegger-muscle-mr-olympia-terminator/1667815/7959176/view) was from an actual photo. I thought the painting was a bit exaggerated, but I guess not. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/311 "2021-03-07T20:13:19Z")
It shows you the danger of thinking that just faithfully reproducing a photograph is all you need to do when depicting human anatomy in a drawing. You have to take into account what it will look like to the viewer. Just saying “It’s just like in the photograph!” is a failure on the artist’s part. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/312 "2021-03-07T20:52:17Z")
I think horrifically reproducing a photo is more on the nose, but yeah you are absolutely right. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/313 "2021-03-07T21:01:37Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > …other films by Zach Snyder: > > “Morose Asshole Superman.” > “Morose Asshole Batman vs. Morose Asshole Superman.” > “Morose Watchmen” > “300 Morose Crossfit Dudes vs. Sassy Persians.” > > He might be the nicest guy in the world. He’s a garbage director and doesn’t have the slightest understanding of the superhero genre and they should never let him direct one again. Let’s not forget “Morose Incel Fantasy” and “Morose Owls”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/314 "2021-03-07T21:56:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Morose Incel Fantasy Which one was that? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/315 "2021-03-07T21:59:31Z")
_Sucker Punch_, presumably. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/316 "2021-03-11T23:37:47Z")
Man, that was a _fucked up film_, and worse because the ad campaign gave you no idea of what you were gonna be subjected to. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/317 "2021-03-12T00:09:24Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Yes, I know. Reminds me of the time I went to a tailor with a dislike for clothes. That doesn’t make a lot of sense with _Watchmen_. The whole point of it was a deconstruction of the superhero genre. And that seems to be true of much of his work that involves superheroes. The point of his work is to comment on the negatives, and that’s clear from the outset. Snyder, on the other hand, seems to be working on films that were intended to embrace superheroes, setting up superhero franchises. While they are intended to modernize the mythos to some degree, they aren’t supposed to deconstruct it. But that’s what he does, because he feels a need to “fix” the things he never liked, rather than what is expected—to stay true to the characters while updating the setting. Or, at least, that’s my impression from what I’ve seen from him and heard from others. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/318 "2021-04-08T11:00:38Z")
> **[Ray Fisher Opens Up About ‘Justice League,’ Joss Whedon and Warners: “I Don’t...](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/feature/ray-fisher-opens-up-about-justice-league-joss-whedon-and-warners-i-dont-believe-some-of-these-people-are-fit-for-leadership-4161658/)** > > Over the past year, the actor has assailed the filmmaker and studio in harsh-but-cryptic tweets for what he says was racist and inappropriate conduct: “I’m not so indebted to Hollywood … > “This is one of the most expensive movies Warners has ever made,” Berg said, according to Fisher. “What if the CEO of AT&T has a son or daughter, and that son or daughter wants Cyborg to say ‘booyah’ in the movie and we don’t have a take of that? I could lose my job.” Fisher responded that he knew if he filmed the line, it would end up in the movie. And he expressed skepticism that the film’s fate rested on Cyborg saying “booyah.” > But he shot the take. As he arrived on set, he says, Whedon stretched out his arms and said a line from _Hamlet_ in a mocking tone: “Speak the speech, I pray you, as I pronounced it to you.” Fisher replied, “Joss — don’t. I’m not in the mood.” As he left the set after saying just that one phrase for the cameras, he says, Whedon called out, “Nice work, Ray.” > The biggest clash, sources say, came when Whedon pushed Gadot to record lines she didn’t like, threatened to harm Gadot’s career and disparaged _Wonder Woman_ director Patty Jenkins. While Fisher declines to discuss any of what transpired with Gadot, a witness on the production who later spoke to investigators says that after one clash, “Joss was bragging that he’s had it out with Gal. He told her he’s the writer and she’s going to shut up and say the lines and he can make her look incredibly stupid in this movie.” > Several sources who spoke to Fisher around this time were willing to talk to a Warners investigator. Among them was writer Nadria Tucker, who tweeted Feb. 24: “I haven’t spoken to Geoff Johns since the day on _Krypton_ when he tried to tell me what is and is not a Black thing.” Tucker tells _THR_ that Johns objected when a Black female character’s hairstyle was changed in scenes that took place on different days. “I said Black women, we tend to change our hair frequently. It’s not weird, it’s a Black thing,” she says. "And he said, ‘No, it’s not.’ " ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/319 "2021-04-08T12:53:28Z")
So Whedon’s misconduct was forcing actors to read lines they didn’t want to? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/320 "2021-04-08T13:30:04Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > So Whedon’s misconduct was forcing actors to read lines they didn’t want to? That seems like a poor, overly reductive summary of what the post above you said. It mentions three incidents. The first one, he’s just an asshole, mocking someone after having called them in to record a single line. The second one, he threatens to blackball an actress because she has a problem with a line, rather than trying to work it out, and then bragging about “having it out” with her. The third is a claim that he was racist shithole who tried whitesplain to a black person about black culture. None of this says that it is the entirety of what happened–they’re just examples. And none are merely a director forcing someone to read their lines. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/321 "2021-04-08T13:37:16Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > So Whedon’s misconduct was forcing actors to read lines they didn’t want to? You’re hired on to a project as an independent contractor, and one of the project leads wants you to do something stupid, put your name on it, and send it to literally every single person who might possibly be interested in hiring you for your next gig. When you balk at doing so, he threatens to harm your career by editing the project in a way to make you look bad. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/322 "2021-04-08T13:45:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The third is a claim that he was racist shithole who tried whitesplain to a black person about black culture. My reading of the article was that it was Geoff Johns that had that conversation, not Whedon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735.md?page=17)