# So that happened... Whedon's “history of creating toxic and hostile work environments” **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2021, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735 "2021-02-12T08:29:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/343 "2021-04-09T00:50:33Z")
We’re not far apart in age. It’s definitely slang from our youthful heyday. That’s something Cyborg’s stuck-in-the-past uncle would say. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/344 "2021-04-09T00:53:48Z")
So Whedon should have directed him to say the line _ironically_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/345 "2021-04-09T01:00:49Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > The racism isn’t in the catchphrase itself. ‘Boo yah’ is black slang from like 1992. Clearly introduced to the cartoon by someone very out of touch and likely not black. It’s _Teen Titans_. Outdated teen slang is kind of its [defining feature](https://50yearoldcomics.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/tt15-dropbackin.jpg?w=1000). ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/346 "2021-04-09T01:02:46Z")
Booyah seems pretty white to me. > **[Booyah (stew)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booyah_(stew))** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Booyah (also spelled booya, bouja, boulyaw, or bouyou) is a thick stew, believed to have originated in Belgium, and made throughout the Upper Midwestern United States. Booyah can require up to two days and multiple cooks to prepare; it is cooked in specially designed "booyah kettles" and usually meant to serve hundreds or even thousands of people. The name can also refer to a social event surrounding the meal. > In cooking booyah, one makes a base ... ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/347 "2021-04-09T01:23:07Z")
You’re prolly right. Tho I see references on line to it being used in the military. The most common cites seem to be nonracial “expression of exuberance.” From that LONG article Ascenray linked, the actor doesn’t seem to object that it was a Black phrase, but instead, that he thought it would be a catchphrase and/or a link to Teen Titans (or something like that. I didn’t read it all that carefully, and he seemed pretty damned whiny for someone getting paid a lot of money to do a job.) Did someone read that article - or anything else - closely enough to see where the actor complained about Booyah because it was black slang from the 90s? ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/348 "2021-04-09T01:41:17Z")
That makes some sense. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/349 "2021-04-09T04:37:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Oh, right, because only literal words carry any abusive meaning. How do you know he’s not “actually” saying that? Obviously there can be implicit messaging in peoples’ words. And I think the evidence points to Whedon being a wanker to staff where one might have expected a pleasant geek. But it’s a stretch to then conclude his words are always dripping with bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/350 "2021-04-09T05:26:29Z")
Ray was hearing that, too. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/351 "2021-04-09T05:33:42Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > “Booyah” is a Stepin Fetchit line? Not _literally_. But forcing a Black actor to say a cartoon catchphrase (AFAIK, it’s from the _kid’s_ _Teen Titans_ cartoon, not even the comics), with accompanying mockery, is some _Bamboozled_-level bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/352 "2021-04-09T05:41:41Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > But it’s a stretch to then conclude his words are always dripping with bigotry. Who said anything about “always”? > [@Dinsdale](#): > > he seemed pretty damned whiny for someone getting paid a lot of money to do a job One could almost say … “uppity”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/353 "2021-04-09T05:52:17Z")
_The biggest clash, sources say, came when Whedon pushed Gadot to record lines she didn’t like, threatened to harm Gadot’s career and disparaged Wonder Woman director Patty Jenkins._ So first of all “sources say” is really weak sauce. And _threatened to harm Gadot’s career_ could be “I wont cast you in anything I produce” doesnt mean “blackball”, since Whedon cant blackball. And Gadot is also known to be hard to work with, but not exceptionally so. And read again, that wasnt Whedon, that was Geoff Johns. So calling Whedon a _racist shithole_ for something he didnt do is a bit much. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/354 "2021-04-09T05:53:36Z")
So the film came out- what line exactly was so exceptional stupid it threatened Gadot’s career? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/355 "2021-04-09T06:00:06Z")
“The Chaser” was not a success when it was moved to an earlier time slot. With the wider/younger audience It immediately attracted too much hate and criticism. But they tried – when I saw the Chaser Eulogy Song the first time it was truncated when he started to mention Lady Di. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/356 "2021-04-09T06:11:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Who said anything about “always”? ‘Nice work!’ said sarcastically seems a pretty standard wanker move, so it does appear you’re adding a racial element. Your ‘hearing’ an implied ‘uppity’ in another poster’s comment makes this a theme. But okay; not _always_. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/357 "2021-04-09T06:20:57Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > ‘Nice work!’ said sarcastically seems a pretty standard wanker move, so it does appear you’re adding a racial element. No, I’m speaking my truth, just like Fisher is. Like I said, Gadot wasn’t forced to say WW’s ridiculous catchphrases, Cavill didn’t have to … the racial element was already baked in when he asserted his Power over Fisher. > [@Staggerlee](#): > > Your ‘hearing’ an implied ‘uppity’ in another poster’s comment makes this a theme. I didn’t say he was _already_ implying uppity, I was _warning_ him that he was drifting in that direction very rapidly. Hence the “almost”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/358 "2021-04-09T06:22:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And Gadot is also known to be hard to work with Well, _there’s_ a whistle even a Weinstein can hear… ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/359 "2021-04-09T12:06:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I didn’t say he was _already_ implying uppity, I was _warning_ him that he was drifting in that direction very rapidly. Hence the “almost”. Bullshit attempted distinction after the fact. People of color can be criticized for reasons other than racial animus. White actors can certainly be whiny as well. And plenty of white characters have uttered catchphrases. Pretty ludicrous to suggest the high art form of superhero movies is demeaned by reference to a cartoon. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/360 "2021-04-09T12:14:06Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Bullshit attempted distinction after the fact. Are you calling me a liar? > [@Dinsdale](#): > > People of color can be criticized for reasons other than racial animus. Of course they _can_. However, a White man _mocking_ a Black man from a position of power is always going to be racist. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > And plenty of white characters have uttered catchphrases. No one has said any different. But not in _that_ movie - including the characters that have _mountains_ of them. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Pretty ludicrous to suggest the high art form of superhero movies is demeaned by reference to a cartoon. Nothing to do with the art, everything to do with treating a Black professional actor like dirt. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/361 "2021-04-09T12:18:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > what line exactly was so exceptional stupid it threatened Gadot’s career? Well, I wasn’t at the filming, but when I asked Gal about it, she told me it was more about the overall treatment of the character than any individual line, and that she didn’t know me, I never actually talked to her, and I’d have to make up anything attributed to her. Back into the real world… I don’t really care about what line it is or isn’t. You don’t threaten people’s careers over creative differences. Actors are not meat automatons through which the writer’s genius is allowed to flow. Gal played this character multiple times, has a vested interest in the character’s portrayal, and creative opinions on that portrayal that should be respected. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/362 "2021-04-09T12:45:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Well, _there’s_ a whistle even a Weinstein can hear… There’s a whole world of difference between threatening to say that someone is difficult to work with because they won’t sleep with you, and saying that they are difficult to work with because they refuse to follow your direction on set. Trying to make a comparison between the two certainly disparages those who were actually sexually abused and harassed by Weinstein and the like. > [@MrDibble](#): > > However, a White man _mocking_ a Black man from a position of power is always going to be racist. I’m not sure how that works. If someone says the same mocking thing to a white man and a black man, it is racist when directed at the black man? He wasn’t mocking him for being black, he was mocking him because he was refusing to do the job that he was contracted to do. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You don’t threaten people’s careers over creative differences. If the threat to their career is that they refuse to say the lines that are written, then it sounds as though they have abandoned their career. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Actors are not meat automatons through which the writer’s genius is allowed to flow. I mean, that’s actually exactly what they are. They aren’t actually superheroes, their skillset is in convincingly playing the part of a superhero. Just as people have pointed out that there are loads of people who would love to have Whedon’s position, there are also loads of people who would love to have any of these actor’s positions as well. If they could be replaced by CGI renderings, and given a decade or so they probably can be, then they will be. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Gal played this character multiple times, has a vested interest in the character’s portrayal, and creative opinions on that portrayal that should be respected. No. An actor’s input should be considered, but they are not the writer, they are not the director, they are not the ones putting up massive amounts of money to produce this project. When people pan Justice League, either cut, they don’t say the Gadot cut or the Fischer cut, they say the Whedon cut or the Snyder cut. If the project fails, that is on the producers and directors. An actor who comes from a failed project can always say they did their best to follow the direction that they were given. There are plenty of actors who did a bad movie who went on to do plenty good ones. Is there really a case of a movie, especially a massive budget movie like this one, that _sunk_ someone’s career because the movie didn’t do well? They are hired for a job, and that job is to say the lines that they are told to say. If they are a good actor, then they will say them like they mean them. If you have an employee that thinks that they know better than you on how to do their job, and just want to do things their own way, should that be tolerated? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735.md?page=19)