# So that happened... Whedon's “history of creating toxic and hostile work environments” **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2021, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735 "2021-02-12T08:29:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/61 "2021-02-13T18:10:34Z")
Given they were in the room “alone together” neither of us will ever know. She has claimed that whatever “it” was that it was inappropriate… and that it was credible enough for the entire set to slam down some “Joss can’t ever be allowed alone with her again” rules. It is verifiable that this event happened when she was 14 and in an atmosphere where Joss was King of the Set with total creative control. To me, it’s clear that something happened, but that that something could not be definitively proven in a court of law. The inference stops just short of claiming sexual assault of a girl who by age had no ability to consent. . ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/62 "2021-02-13T18:13:10Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > To me, it’s clear that something happened, but that that something could not be definitively proven in a court of law. The inference stops just short of claiming sexual assault of a girl who by age had no ability to consent. . I don’t need for it to be proven in a court of law to have an opinion about whether he should be in jail. But there are plenty of things that he might do short of actual sexual assault or other criminal act that might still justify not letting him be alone with her. I’d be satisfied just knowing what she alleged that he did. What I would say is that if what he did was so bad that he was barred from being alone with her, then at minimum, he should have been fired. So I do think that what they did didn’t go far enough, but I don’t know enough to know whether he should be in jail. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/63 "2021-02-13T18:28:51Z")
There really is nothing in that article backing up what you and its title are declaring. Making fun of how crappy men can be is not allying with feminism. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/64 "2021-02-13T18:35:26Z")
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**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/65 "2021-02-13T18:36:21Z")
**Warning** for **FigNorton** for ignoring multiple modnotes to stay on topic. Now to everyone, **please stay on topic here.** ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/66 "2021-02-13T18:36:57Z")
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**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/67 "2021-02-13T21:05:56Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > To me, it’s clear that something happened, but that that something could not be definitively proven in a court of law. The inference stops just short of claiming sexual assault of a girl who by age had no ability to consent. . Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe he made an inappropriate joke and she felt uncomfortable. Gross and immoral? Probably. But I think it’s jumping the gun to assume he did something illegal to Trachtenberg. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/68 "2021-02-13T21:30:39Z")
Yes, or it could have been along the lines of what Carpenter has talked about, but done to a teenaged girl. Berating and destroying self esteem, and generally being emotionally abusive toward a 14-year-old might have been more obvious, and triggered more reaction than doing it to adult women. It also could have been something jail-worthy – who knows. But illegality is not the only explanation. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/69 "2021-02-13T23:31:42Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > It also could have been something jail-worthy – who knows. But illegality is not the only explanation. If I walked in on him and my daughter with him sitting close and suggesting they go back to his mansion to read lines, there’s no damn way he’s being left alone with her again and also no way I can really call the cops on him. There’s massive room for non-illegal stuff. I do assume her parents aren’t worried Whedon might try to sell her a reverse mortgage. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/70 "2021-02-15T12:35:44Z")
Anthony Head has come out to say that he didn’t see anything untoward but - and this is important - [is not in any way suggesting it didn’t happen](https://www.hellomagazine.com/film/20210211106683/buffy-star-anthony-head-speaks-out-on-toxic-environment-claims/). Mostly he’s wondering if he missed something he should have taken notice of. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/71 "2021-02-15T14:07:52Z")
You know, I’m starting to get the feeling this Joss fella may not be entirely on the up and up. . . ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/72 "2021-02-15T20:32:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > He’s not allowed in a room alone with Michelle **again** I can’t help thinking of Billy Graham. He had a similar rule. In fact, as a traveling entertainer, he had a team and a procedure to ensure that he was not allowed into a room alone with a young women. But it wasn’t a rule that was enforced on him: it was his rule that he had, so that he didn’t turn out like Jimmy Swaggart. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/73 "2021-02-16T04:45:49Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I can’t help thinking of Billy Graham. He had a similar rule. In fact, as a traveling entertainer, he had a team and a procedure to ensure that he was not allowed into a room alone with a young women. But it wasn’t a rule that was enforced on him: it was his rule that he had, so that he didn’t turn out like Jimmy Swaggart. Whatever temptation Graham may have felt, it was also a prudent move, as I’m sure any number of people would have been willing to blackmail a man such as himself by creating the appearance of a tawdry situation. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/74 "2021-02-16T05:15:13Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Whatever temptation Graham may have felt, it was also a prudent move, as I’m sure any number of people would have been willing to blackmail a man such as himself by creating the appearance of a tawdry situation.   Yes, I always understood this was the main reason he did it - to shield himself from false claims. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/75 "2021-02-16T07:01:26Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Yes, I always understood this was the main reason he did it - to shield himself from false claims. While I’m sure that was considered, reading biographical material makes it clear that he consciously decided to structure his life in a way that would lead to logical outcomes, including his personal and economic relationships. He started thinking about his own behavior long before he was famous enough for anybody else to care about it. BG was smart enough to known that he wasn’t immune from common personal failures. And – you may laugh – but structured behavior is a well-known religious practice and a well-known personal development practice, so he wasn’t really striking out in new directions. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/76 "2021-02-17T09:56:03Z")
Yeah but Whedon has worked exclusively in children’s entertainment with the whiff of adult themes that is similar to the grooming predator. I’m a secret vampire killer, I am a big super hero, I have a space world with Mandarin speakers but no scary asians. My superheroes do swears and kill ooh ahh be an adult with me, it’s not right. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/77 "2021-02-17T13:39:23Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > Yeah but Whedon has worked exclusively in children’s entertainment this is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/78 "2021-02-17T15:42:55Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > I’m a secret vampire killer, I am a big super hero, I have a space world with Mandarin speakers but no scary asians. Which ones of those shows do you think was for children? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/79 "2021-02-17T15:46:25Z")
Well, when I got into BTVS, I gleefully shared it w/ my gradeschool aged children! 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-that-happened-whedons-history-of-creating-toxic-and-hostile-work-environments/932735/80 "2021-02-17T15:54:39Z")
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