So that happened... Whedon's “history of creating toxic and hostile work environments”

Do they, though? You mentioned two, but neither have been used in any interpretations of those characters in more than fifty years. “Up, up and away,” was a relic of the radio show, when they needed a device to communicate to listeners that Superman was taking off, and largely died with the radio. “Suffering Sappho” has been gone for even longer - having been straightwashed out of her character after Marston stopped writing the character. I can’t think of any catchphrases for any of these characters that are remotely current.

Well, mabye “>ht<” for Batman.

I think the important thing to take away from all this is that we all agree Whedon is an asshole.

Bigger than just DC. This was pre-Black Panther. So the stakes were incredibly high.

We’re always negotiating how were represented on screen. And from all accounts (including Chris Terrio’s new interview), A LOT of care and thought went into how that was done.

The person who doesn’t have any sensitivity to that, or try to preserve any of that, is actually antagonistic to the very idea, and thinks, ‘shut up and do what you’re told,’ amidst all of that context… I have no issue calling that person racist. That person is racist.


You may also simply be a competent manager. It’s that old adage “If you met a jerk in the morning, you met a jerk. If you meet jerks all day long, you’re the jerk.” There are too many people coming out saying he creates a toxic environment for me to think they are all jerk actors being prima donnas.

I do judge Fisher or Gadot negatively, as they joined in the Whedon pile on, for really minor reasons.

But post-Winter Soldier and Iron Man 2, both of which had substantial roles for Black superheroes. Not lead roles, sure, but I don’t know that “One of six leads in a two hour movie” is that much of a step up, particularly when three of those other leads are Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.

Just about every Big Star in Hollywood, with a small handful of exceptions- have been considered “difficult to work with”. The stars of Justice League are no exception, male or female.

Here is one list of the Top 20. About half are male, half female. You seem to be claiming that the females on this list are really all angels, but just refused to sleep with the bosses. While the males are on that list as they are really assholes. Unless you think Shia LeBeouf is on that list as he refused to sleep with Micheal Bay. :roll_eyes: :shushing_face:

Divas have been Divaing since Og was drumming and Meg was singing. Actors, singers, musicians, writers, sport stars, etc. Fame does go to your head.

Now what i said above was that Gadot was sometimes considered “difficult to work with” but not exceptionally so. She can be googled and stories found but she isnt on any Top 20 list or anything.

Here are some more lists

But here’s the thing. Cyborg is a latecomer to Justice league. He isnt as well known as the Big Five. In order to introduce him to the public, there is nothing wrong with harkening back to the cartoons.

And indeed, Flash was doing as many wisecracks as Cyborg. And if a Goofball too. In fact, I didnt consider Cyborg to be the goofball here. Cyborg and Flash are also supposed to be the youngest members of the team, so they should act up a little compared to the older three.


The character was created by writer Marv Wolfman and artist George Pérez

Taking credit for a character someone else developed loses any respect I have for them.

And no, this wasnt the first Black DC superhero in a movie onscreen. Cyborg had appeared in several animated films. Not to mention Steel in his very own live action film in 1997. Steel is DC.

Just about every powerful producer and Director in Hollywood is a asshole.

Just about every powerful anybody is an asshole to someone or some group. It’s a by-product of power.

Absolutely, I concur. The few exceptions are notable.

I dont see how Whedon is a bigger asshole. Mind you, he did have a rep for a while as being nice, so maybe this is a reaction- "Joss isnt nice, he is just as much of a asshole as every other big name director."

Probably, but isn’t everyone, from time to time?

The question isn’t whether he’s an asshole, I think that’s a given. The question is whether he’s a big enough asshole to censure him. There are also questions as to whether he is racist or sexist.

From what I’ve seen so far, the answer is that he’s more or less just a run of the mill asshole, probably with a good dash of narcissism developed due to his successes. Could use some work in the befriending department, but so could most people.

And if you meet 100 people a day, and you find that 10 of them are jerks, what does that say about you?

My understanding is that he did get along well with most of the people that he worked with.

It’s a clash of personalities. He thinks that just because he’s written and directed several hit TV shows, a few massive blockbusters, and the world’s greatest musical, he knows what he is doing.

They think that because they are being paid bags of money to recite the lines that they are given, that they should have final say in what those lines should be.

When you have people who know that they are right, but only one of them ultimately can be, the one that is overruled is always going to be sore about it.

There is an interesting and valuable discussion here, but every time someone flippantly sums up an actor’s job as “recite the lines they are given,” it’s clear that you’re either ignorantly or intentionally minimizing the scope of their skill and responsibilities in order to make their complaints easier for you to write off.

Despite what a few asshole directors or writers might say, “reciting the lines they are given” is not, in fact, an accurate description of the job of an actor.

Yeah, and there were the ones he delighted in reducing to tears, the teenage girl he wasn’t allowed to be alone with, a whole bunch of folks who say he mistreated them, most of them women, but it’s them and not him.

He can be brilliant, and cruel, and a misogynist all at the same time. That doesn’t mean his dismissive cruelty can be excused because “of course he’s right, he’s the brilliant Joss Whedon”

I was just as flippant with Whedon’s credentials.

But you are right, they are supposed to recite the lines that they are given, in the way that the director wants them recited. Often there is choreography involved, as well.

I’m not sure what else you want here. They are not writing, they are not producing, they are not financing, they are not directing. They are following a script that was written by someone else, on a production that is being managed and paid for by someone else, for a project that is being directed and overseen by someone else.

I’m not saying that acting is an easy job, but I am saying that that is their job, and the complaints that I see are coming from people who seem to want to do those other jobs as well.

I absolutely guarantee that you can get a very attractive actress for $50k to recite all of WW’s lines, verbatim, and all you have to do is tap into the community dinner theatre circuit.

The difference between the two.

of course not, and I did not do any such thing, so I fail to see why you would make such a statement.

Good point, and I’m sure that they would be extremely happy to be given the opportunity.