# So the Censu bureau wants me to fill out a form... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 19, 2007, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130 "2007-08-19T08:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/101 "2007-08-23T19:14:07Z")
Actually, it is the Census Bureau’s business to collect the information that they do. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/102 "2007-08-23T19:15:41Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] It doesn’t matter! That is not the point. The point is, it’s not their business. The purpose of the census is to count the number of people. That’s it. [/QUOTE] Exactly. Here I am. Population: 1. Goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/103 "2007-08-23T19:16:21Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] **Dinsdale** , for what it’s worth, I totally agree with you. I don’t understand why data such as **herownself** needs at work couldn’t be collected through voluntary means. I work in market research, and see it being done every day. I, too, resent the violation of privacy, and I do not see any reason for this kind of information to be collected via the census. [/QUOTE] Do you really believe that peple in this thread who don’t answer the Census Survey as it is now will actually provide the same data voluntarily, out of the goodness of their hearts and pure civic-mindedness? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/104 "2007-08-23T19:24:07Z")
[QUOTE=Sean Factotum] Do you really believe that peple in this thread who don’t answer the Census Survey as it is now will actually provide the same data voluntarily, out of the goodness of their hearts and pure civic-mindedness? [/QUOTE] No, they probably won’t. But the point is, you can do without those people if you use good sampling methodology and statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/105 "2007-08-23T19:28:46Z")
Well, if that was the case, wouldn’t the government be doing just that instead of sending out this hideously expensive forms and staffing to get that info? So you’ve got to ask why it isn’t being done easier and cheaper. Because this is the cheapest way to get the info they need to run the country. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/106 "2007-08-23T19:35:23Z")
[QUOTE=Sean Factotum] Well, if that was the case, wouldn’t the government be doing just that instead of sending out this hideously expensive forms and staffing to get that info? [/QUOTE] 😕 They would still be spending money to do it…maybe less, in fact, because they wouldn’t have to follow up with the same people over & over, and sending people out for personal visits, trying to get people to comply…they’d just move onto the next one. The sampling methodology they are using is no doubt the most accurate, because of the fact that people can’t opt out, which does help your randomization. But it doesn’t matter…they could get by just fine doing it the way business does it. > [@](#): > > So you’ve got to ask why it isn’t being done easier and cheaper. Because this is the cheapest way to get the info they need to run the country. I don’t care if it’s the cheapest. As I said above, I doubt it IS the cheapest. Hell, if you want cheapest, stop collecting the data altogether, and end all the government programs that rely on it. My problem isn’t that it’s the cheapest, or that the data will be used the wrong way, or whatever. My problem is that it is not within the rights of the government to force you to give them the information. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/107 "2007-08-23T19:39:16Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I don’t care if it’s the cheapest. As I said above, I doubt it IS the cheapest. But if you want cheapest, stop collecting the data altogether, and end all the government programs that rely on it. [/QUOTE] Programs like Congress (because the number of US House of Rep. members each state gets is based on population provided in the Census)? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/108 "2007-08-23T19:41:44Z")
[QUOTE=Sean Factotum] Programs like Congress (because the number of US House of Rep. members each state gets is based on population provided in the Census)? [/QUOTE] I’ll direct you to this post of mine, from 30 minutes ago: [QUOTE=Sarahfeena] It doesn’t matter! That is not the point. The point is, it’s not their business. The purpose of the census is to count the number of people. That’s it. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/109 "2007-08-23T19:47:38Z")
**Sarah** - somehow I suspect you are one of them troublemakers who refuse to give your phone number or zip code to store clerks when conducting a cash transaction, even if they ask nicely and promise cross their hearts that they will never do anything improper with it. Come on - what could it hurt? Troublemaker! ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/110 "2007-08-23T19:48:19Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I’ll direct you to this post of mine, from 30 minutes ago: [/QUOTE] So what you are saying then is that you need justification for every bit of info that the Census asks for before you’re satisfied that it is something you should answer? Because you seem to be okay with telling them how many people live at your residence, but nothing else? Do I have that right? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/111 "2007-08-23T19:50:34Z")
[QUOTE=Sean Factotum] So what you are saying then is that you need justification for every bit of info that the Census asks for before you’re satisfied that it is something you should answer? Because you seem to be okay with telling them how many people live at your residence, but nothing else? Do I have that right? [/QUOTE] Sounds good to me. You might want to check out the original authorization for the census, and see what part of that authorization speaks to flush toilets and commuting time. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/112 "2007-08-23T19:57:01Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] **Sarah** - somehow I suspect you are one of them troublemakers who refuse to give your phone number or zip code to store clerks when conducting a cash transaction, even if they ask nicely and promise cross their hearts that they will never do anything improper with it. Come on - what could it hurt? Troublemaker! [/QUOTE] That’s me! Although, I’m kind of a contrary person…I’m probably more likely to give information if the long arm of the law isn’t demanding it. [QUOTE=Sean Factotum] So what you are saying then is that you need justification for every bit of info that the Census asks for before you’re satisfied that it is something you should answer? Because you seem to be okay with telling them how many people live at your residence, but nothing else? Do I have that right? [/QUOTE] Actually, I don’t need to hear any justification for anything beyond counting the # of people in my household, because there isn’t any justification that I would accept. It’s not a matter of “I don’t like your reasons for demanding the information,” it’s a matter of “you have no right to demand the information for any reason.” ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/113 "2007-08-23T20:00:44Z")
[QUOTE= My problem is that it is not within the rights of the government to force you to give them the information. That’s it.[/QUOTE] That is totally incorrect. The powers of the gov’t. are spelled out in the constitution, as are your civil rights. There is no specific right to privacy, it’s only implied, but the requirement for the census is very specific. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/114 "2007-08-23T20:04:26Z")
But there is more that the government, federal and state, are required to do than just assign which congressional district you are in. Commute time - points to underserviced transportation needs where you live. Your city or county doesn’t have the funds to build bigger roads or the authority to widen interstates. Toilets - see **herownself** ’s example for one reason why that question is there and how it’s used to make things better for the whole community. Age of children and how long you’ve lived there - points to long-term needs for public schools based on the amount of children that will be living in that school district. So none of this is worth 10 minutes of your time in 2010? [QUOTE=US Census website] The U.S. Census Bureau submitted to Congress the subjects it plans to address in the 2010 Census, which include gender, age, race, ethnicity, relationship and whether you own or rent your home. Estimated to take less than 10 minutes to complete, the 2010 Census would be one of the shortest and easiest to complete since the nation’s first census in 1790. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Zambini57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4491bb/32.png) [@Zambini57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zambini57)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/115 "2007-08-23T20:05:03Z")
[QUOTE=Sean Factotum] So what you are saying then is that you need justification for every bit of info that the Census asks for before you’re satisfied that it is something you should answer? Because you seem to be okay with telling them how many people live at your residence, but nothing else? Do I have that right? [/QUOTE] Your query wasn’t directed at me, but I will throw in my 2 cents, this being IMHO. I’m not telling those do-gooder, tax-money wasting busybodies squat. Nobody asked the CDC to stick their nanny- noses into our lives and tell us how to live. Screw them. If they want to fight disease, then let them direct their efforts towards cancer, Alzheimers and AIDS. Quit wasting our money on your egotistical, do-gooder crusades. If this is what the CDC is wasting my money on, trying to mold society based on the number of toilets someone has, then they need their budget cut, and some asses need to be on the street looking for real jobs. What are you going to do, anyway? You find some overcrowding, what do you think you are going to do about it? All you are about is crunching numbers and submitting reports that amount to nothing. You waste my money and I am sick of it. I’m sick of you leeches. This is my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/116 "2007-08-23T20:09:33Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane] That is totally incorrect. The powers of the gov’t. are spelled out in the constitution, as are your civil rights. There is no specific right to privacy, it’s only implied, but the requirement for the census is very specific. [/QUOTE] What is totally incorrect about it? The requirement of the census, as you say, is very specific. _As is the purpose of it_. The purpose of it, as stated in the Constitution, is for drawing congressional districts. That’s all. They have the right to count me. They do not have the right to ask me for any other personal information. On second thought, that’s wrong. They have the right to _ask me_. They don’t have the right to _force me to comply_. The “right to privacy” is not a term I would ever use. As far as I know, the term was invented with Roe v. Wade. BUT the powers of the government are specified in the Constitution. Demanding personal information is not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/117 "2007-08-23T20:11:56Z")
[QUOTE=Zambini57] Your query wasn’t directed at me, but I will throw in my 2 cents, this being IMHO. [/QUOTE] And with those well-thought out and enlightening opinions, I’m poorer for not asking you. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/118 "2007-08-23T20:15:57Z")
[QUOTE=Sean Factotum] But there is more that the government, federal and state, are required to do than just assign which congressional district you are in. [/QUOTE] First of all, the census is a Federal effort, so let’s not get the states involved in this. The Constitution lists what the Federal government is required to do, and the only requirement of the Federal government that could possibly involve the Census is districting. And the only information you need for districting is the # of people. > [@](#): > > Commute time - points to underserviced transportation needs where you live. Your city or county doesn’t have the funds to build bigger roads or the authority to widen interstates. > > Toilets - see **herownself** ’s example for one reason why that question is there and how it’s used to make things better for the whole community. > > Age of children and how long you’ve lived there - points to long-term needs for public schools based on the amount of children that will be living in that school district. None of those things are requirements of the Federal government. > [@](#): > > So none of this is worth 10 minutes of your time in 2010? It has nothing to do with the value of my time. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/119 "2007-08-23T20:17:42Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] What is totally incorrect about it? The requirement of the census, as you say, is very specific. _As is the purpose of it_. The purpose of it, as stated in the Constitution, is for drawing congressional districts. That’s all. They have the right to count me. They do not have the right to ask me for any other personal information. On second thought, that’s wrong. They have the right to _ask me_. They don’t have the right to _force me to comply_. [/QUOTE] So since 1790, every single thing that has been added to the Census survey has been unconstitutional? And this is the first group of people to realize this? The Census is a tool that was established for one purpose, true. But over the years it has become clear that it can be used for other things (unfortunately, in the case of Japanese-Americans during WWII, illegally.) Methods and needs change over time. That very same Constitution doesn’t give you the right to vote, but that was changed over time. The Constitution isn’t a static document. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130/120 "2007-08-23T20:21:42Z")
[QUOTE=Sean Factotum] So since 1790, every single thing that has been added to the Census survey has been unconstitutional? And this is the first group of people to realize this? [/QUOTE] As far as I know, this is not a concept invented by the people participating in this thread, no. > [@](#): > > The Census is a tool that was established for one purpose, true. But over the years it has become clear that it can be used for other things (unfortunately, in the case of Japanese-Americans during WWII, illegally.) Methods and needs change over time. Of course it _can_ be used for other things. > [@](#): > > That very same Constitution doesn’t give you the right to vote, but that was changed over time. The Constitution isn’t a static document. True, it is not a static document, but I was given the right to vote through an amendment, not through reading things into it that aren’t there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-censu-bureau-wants-me-to-fill-out-a-form/416130.md?page=7)