So aren’t there changes to the Constitution that allow the expanded use of the Census?
In fact, the introduction to the Census 2000 form (starting on page I-1 of this pdf) tells why changes were made from the original reason for the Census over the years.
No you’re not! 
Well, sure, you wouldn’t think so…I’ve been agreeing with you all day long! 
This basically answers your previous question. This document gives a lot of explanation for why they have added the long form, but none of them really impress me. I’m aware that they think the information is being collected for the public good, but again, it doesn’t matter what the reason is.
Well if you just don’t care, then I guess there’s nothing I can do to instill a sense of basic civic duty. Sorry to have wasted your time.
To be quite honest, I’m kind of amused that filling out the census form is what passes for civic duty these days.
There ya go, Sarah. Question what you consider an inappropriate extension of governmental authority makes you downright un-American.
You are a very very bad person! Here, have some Kool-Ade!
So, you’re saying that the fact that the government does X proves that X is the cheapest and most efficient method?
What color is the sky on your planet?
No, the reason the census is done by actual count instead of statistical sampling is because that is exactly what is required by the constitution. (Statistical sampling might actually be cheaper.)
There was a proposal after the 2000 census to use statistical sampling to correct what was believed to be inaccuracies in the census count, but it was ultimately rejected. The Census Bureau estimated that the population was undercounted by three million, consisting mostly of poor people, minorities and children and mostly in cities. (Cite: New York Times, U.S. Census Bureau Rejects Revision to Nation’s Tally, March 2, 2001.)
The actual count is done by actual counting, which is required by the Constitution, as you say. The long form is statistical sampling. It is the long form I have an objection to, not the regular census.
There’s really no end to the depths of my depravity.
FWIW the scope of the census has changed since 1787:
Bolding mine.
Ok. 1) Help me out. How does a market researcher construct a stratified sample without the underlying population data? Somehow, I don’t think the number of people in each Census tract --which is all you want to measure if I understand another post of yours correctly-- will help us here.
- The long form is sent out to 1 out of 6 Americans. Sure that’s a sample, but it’s way different than what Gallup does. If I’m correct, users of stratified samples are basically screwed without the Census.
Actually, I’m one of those people. And I sure hope that Dinsdale isn’t your real name, if you have the same take on privacy that I do. Judging from your SDMB bio, you probably feel comfortable disclosing more information online than I do.
I’m willing to give the census my information, because I don’t fear the black helicopters and because there are substantial penalties for using the data in such a way so as to identify particular individuals. “The penalties for violating confidentiality were gradually strengthened until, in 1919, unauthorized disclosure was declared a felony.” Cite from the Electronic Privacy Information Center. Currently the penalty for wrongful disclosure peaks at 5 years in prison plus a fine.
Oh, it’s a minor duty. Trivial really. One with inconsequential risk. On the benefit side it helps us fight ignorance and advance human welfare: see the CDC post and others above.
Gotta choose your battles, bub. I find myself visiting http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/ to keep tabs on the fight against governmental corruption.
But my personal opinion is that the public spirited Founding Fathers had the proper take.
Sorting our confidentiality issues took some time though: I understand that the first substantial expansion of data gathering began with the 1830 Census. Appendix C: Confidentiality and the Census, 1790-1929
Heh. Later: “The detailed economic inquiries were not received with equanimity by the populace, especially in rural regions.”
This is a pretty cheap shot. Nobody here is saying it’s particularly “American” or “patriotic” to fill out the census. Only that it fulfills an important responsibility to the community, as it would anywhere that human beings live in society with one another. Doing one’s civic duty is not an idea that America invented, and IMHO citizens in a lot of other places do a much better job of it.
Your first post in this thread actually gave me a lot of pause. I, too, am highly disturbed by the provisions of the Patriot Act, etc., and certainly do not believe that one should have no objections to handing over info so long as one has nothing to hide. I’ve been raised to be deeply suspicious of authority. On the other hand, that doesn’t justify (in my view) being suspicious of government - not our government specifically, but the broader concept of “government” - simply because it’s the government. Feel free to disagree with me here (as I expect you may), but I believe that, in the most basic sense, government (especially a representative democratic government) exists to better provide for the needs of its citizens. You know, “of the people, by the people, for the people.” While I don’t trust this particular administration as far as I can throw it, I also don’t believe the good folks at the Census Bureau are power-mad villains set on abusing my personal info. But I guess you do.
I respectfully differ, but the post I was responding to (and quoted) suggested that my position indicated a lack of “basic civil duty”. I’m one of those crazy folks who think that pointing out governmental excesses and abuses may be among the highest forms of civil duty.
And no, I’m not antipathetic towards the federal government. Heck, they’ve been paying my wages for over 2 decades now! 
I’m one of those crazy folks, too (as I pointed out in my first post in this thread)!
All I’m saying (in the rest of the paragraph you quoted from) is that “not doing your civic duty” doesn’t mean “un-American.” I don’t believe the people who expressed the idea that “those who refuse to fill out the census are refusing to do their civic duty” would agree with people who say that protesting the Patriot Act (for example) is un-American. Well, I certainly wouldn’t, anyway. And I think it’s unfair for you to lump these two different sorts of arguments together.
Yes, it has changed, clearly…but IMO, it is not Constitutional.