# So the European Union Fulfills Revelations? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 9, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957 "2003-08-09T01:39:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/1 "2003-08-09T01:39:52Z")
This isn’t really a GD, but because it deals with controversial religious issues, it seems like the place to put it. On another board, a poster has quoted this [report by Ian Paisley](http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=666), the Northern Irish clergyman who was infamous during the troubles there, effectively suggesting that the European Union is intentionally being set up to fulfill the prophecies in Revelation. > [@](#): > > The prophetic significance of the European Union has been revealed as the saga unfolds. [See our two articles on “The Conspiracy behind the European Union”.] First, the sign which it chose as its symbol was the Woman riding the Beast. This comes from a prophecy in Revelation 17. The depiction of the harlot woman was reproduced on the centenary stamp of the European Union, in a huge painting in the Parliament’s new building in Brussels, and by a huge sculpture outside the new E.U. Council of Ministers Office in Brussels. The new European coinage, the Euro, bears the same insignia. The Tower of Babel has been used on the posters emanating from Europe – a truly suggestive prophetic sign. Shortly thereafter he enumerates the occupants of the last 22 numbered seats in the E.U. Parliament hall, noting that #666 is left vacant. (Amusingly, #679 is for “Crowley” – not a Good Omen! ;)) Would anyone with some knowledge of the E.U. be so kind as to let me know what the truth behind the stuff Paisley speaks of here might be, preferably with online cites, so that I can use it in answering that poster? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/2 "2003-08-09T02:35:43Z")
No cites, but I seem to recall reading some EU fulfilling Revelations stuff a while (as in 15 years or so) back…something about the number of countries in it being significant. (And then of course they went and expanded…oops!) Might have been Hal Lindsey. I’ve got nothing better to do tonight; maybe I’ll dig around a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/3 "2003-08-09T02:41:20Z")
_sees he completely misread the info request in the OP_ :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/4 "2003-08-09T02:53:31Z")
I don’t think we should lose sight of the essential fact that Ian Paisley is crazy… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/5 "2003-08-09T04:09:04Z")
I have not been able to find any images of the “woman on the beast,” either as a statue before the Council of Ministers or as a postage stamp. (This could be simply a lack of knowing exactly what to look for–where _does_ one go to find a catalog of EU postage stamps, is such exists?) On the other hand, given the honesty for which Paisley is known, I suspect that the image is that of [Europa carried off by Zeus in the form of the Bull](http://www.pantheon.org/articles/e/europa.html), a fairly common image in the arts and one that would be recognizable to all Europeans without being attached to any one nation (the Ancient Greek legacy being considered a shared resource). Reinforcing my belief in my guess is that many European Union documents refer to the union using the name _Europa_. If Paisley is claiming that Zeus-as-Bull (having only one head) is the Beast of Revelation, then he is even more dishonest than I would normally expect. Images of Europa and Zeus: [http://24.24.31.212/literature/Europa-Zeus-LDS.jpg](http://24.24.31.212/literature/Europa-Zeus-LDS.jpg) [http://home.wanadoo.nl/r.driedijk/verhalen/Zeus%20en%20Europa.jpg](http://home.wanadoo.nl/r.driedijk/verhalen/Zeus%20en%20Europa.jpg) [http://www.members.aol.com/astrofreaks/sternbilder/stier.htm](http://www.members.aol.com/astrofreaks/sternbilder/stier.htm) [http://www.weekendafirenze.com/museidet/img/europa.jpg](http://www.weekendafirenze.com/museidet/img/europa.jpg) [Religious site, apparently echoing Paisley, linking Europa/Zeus image to the Woman on the Beast (and conveniently ignoring that the Bull does not match the Beast of Revelation).](http://www.biblemagazine.com/magazine/vol-10/issue-1/beasts.html) (Includes images of EU logo and coin.) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/6 "2003-08-09T04:15:46Z")
I’ve heard this stuff before. IIRC, we even had a thread once about whether the Euro was the mark of the Beast. I don’t see much point in pursuing this really. If you want to see a power crazed antichrist bent on driving the world towards Armageddon we have a much better candidate back here at home. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/7 "2003-08-09T10:41:22Z")
Paisley is not far off from being the antichrist himself, maybe he has the inside track ? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/8 "2003-08-09T11:02:05Z")
Just to add my opinion that Ian Paisley is madder than Mad Jack McMad, winner of the Maddest Man in Christendom competition seven years running. (I have heard a rumour that he is in fact a diagnosed schizophrenic and receives treatment regularly.) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/9 "2003-08-09T11:23:05Z")
> [@](#): > > The new European coinage, the Euro, bears the same insignia. In the interests of research, I have in front of me a 1 Euro coin, and am disappointed to report that it is entirely free of harlot women. On the [generic](http://www.24carat.co.uk/images/2002eurozone1eurorev217.jpg) side that all Euro coins possess (don’t really know whether to call it heads or tails), there’s the denomination and a map of the European Union, which is crossed by lines that join stars together. It’s remarkably free of harlotry at all, apart from Scandinavia looking suspiciously like male genitalia. My Irish-minted Euro bears a harp on the other side. Knowing “Reverend” Paisley’s distaste for all things to do with the Irish Republic, perhaps that is what he’s referring to? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/10 "2003-08-09T11:48:24Z")
Hmm… well [this page](http://www.divineintervention.ws/coins.htm) might be where Paisley’s got some of his info. > [@](#): > > Many of the European Union’s coinage bear the image of the “Woman Riding The Beast”, such as the “2 Euro” and the “5 Euro” (a collectable coin) shown above. The center of the coins where the image appears is cast in gold. A possible reference to the “golden calf/false idol” constructed by Aaron in Exodus 32: > > \ > > Not all of the Euro’s have a gold center, so an effort was made to ensure that these did. The 2 Euro’s [sic] went into circulation January 1, 2002 throughout most of the European Union member states. As you can see, each of the two coins displayed on that page undeniably show a woman sitting on a bull. One of the errors on the interpretation of those coins? Well, the first coin shows an official Greek €2 coin. One side is the generic side that I mentioned. The other is put there by the Greek government. What the woman and the bull represent, I don’t know. I’m guessing something from Greek mythology. The second coin is a €5 from the Netherlands. The €5 denomination coins are commemorative only, and those minted around (and even outside of) the Eurozone don’t seem to have to bear the generic Euro side. In other words, the side that says “5 EURO”, that also shows a woman riding a bull, was put there by the Dutch government, not the EU. What _she_ represents, I have no idea. Whatever, neither of these designs represent the European Union; they are both national symbols. Perhaps the Greek and Dutch governments are in satanic cahoots, trying to fulfil revelations… but I don’t think so. And whether or not either of the ladies is a harlot, I guess you’d have to ask them. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/11 "2003-08-09T12:02:26Z")
I’d just like to apologise for not reading **tomndebb’s** post before posting. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/12 "2003-08-09T13:21:54Z")
**jjimm** , I checked the page you linked to. The Dutch coin is a fake, I think. 1. The Euro has only been introduced in 1999, I think, and was only available as a coin since 2002 (though, it is true, it was minted before 2002). I really can’t see how there could be a Dutch coin dated 1996 (unless I read the number wrong). 2. The picture of the queen vaguely resembles the picture that is used on Dutch coins (euros, and before that, guilders), but has been stretched. You can see the proper picture [at the DNB site](http://www.dnb.nl/bankbiljetten_munten/index_munten.htm). 3. The picture of a woman rinding a bull is AFAIK highly uncommon in Dutch heraldry/symbolism. I don’t remember it ever being used for something Dutch. 4. Before the introduction of the Euro, The Netherlands never minted coins consisting of two different kinds of metal. 5. A couple of coin collector/seller sites I checked didn’t mention such a commemorative coin. See for example [this site](http://www.euro-web.nl/munten/Nederland/spec.html). Seems those people can’t even stick to silly interpretations, they have to fake facts as well. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/13 "2003-08-09T14:15:06Z")
There are also Danish and [UK](http://www.eurocoins.co.uk/britainsilver5europiedfort.html) €5 coins for sale, and those countries arn’t even in the Eurozone - I think these (and possibly the Dutch one) are commemorative, unofficial, or prototype. They’re not standard euro coinage, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/14 "2003-08-09T15:03:57Z")
Sorry, **jjimm** , but what do you mean with an unofficial coin? If the people of the website of [divineintervention.org](http://divineintervention.org) made such a coin, it would exist but be unofficial. For purposes of this thread I’d say coin should mean _official_ coin, i.e. minted by the State. Again, AFAIK, the Dutch authorities have never issued a coin such as that shown at that website. Furthermore, while we Dutch do possess extreme powers of premonition 😉 it is even above us to be able to make a coin in 1996 for a currency that didn’t exist at the time. Again, I may be wrong. Please point out a trustworthy source that lists the coin shown at that website as a coin issued by the Dutch State. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/15 "2003-08-09T15:08:29Z")
I meant similar to the UK one - maybe made totally unofficially by a third party - such as the Franklin Mint (did you see what I did there?). But you’re right: I don’t know that the term “euro” had even been coined in 1996 (did you see what I did _there_!). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/16 "2003-08-09T15:12:02Z")
[Here you go](http://www.numismania.cyberforce.nl/coin/eu/eu9601us.htm): > [@](#): > > On december 15 1995 the european leaders finally came to a decision; the future european monetary unit will be called EURO. Accoording to the present time schedule the introduction of the euro coins and paper money will take place in the year 2002. But before this year a lot has yet to happen; because nobody knows how the Euro’s will look like. > > For the time being the Euro doesn’t exist as a legal tender. Never the less the Dutch Mint has decided to start stricking Euro’s who will be similar to commemorative tokens. That said, the 1996 Dutch euros shown aren’t at all like the ones on that religious paranoia site, so you’re probably right. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/17 "2003-08-09T15:56:55Z")
Thanks for the info; seems I was a bit off with my dates as well. So it would in principle be possible that those pictures on that site are such a commemorative coin. Maybe a numismatic expert can tell the real story? The thing that raises my suspicions in particular is the very odd way the queen’s silhouet is put on that site you linked to. It looks ugly and different from what was and is common with Dutch coins. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/18 "2003-08-10T06:15:11Z")
Were Ian Paisley to claim that cyanide is poisonous–you can figure out the rest. The man knows he’s on the way out, and that the EU would make it harder for him to set up a clerico-fascist state in Northern Ireland. There are unionists, there are frothing-rabid baby-killing Orangists, and then there is Ian Paisley, even further along that line. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/19 "2003-08-10T11:15:13Z")
I’d also add that from what I’ve seen, people who believe we live in the End Times will find evidence in whatever they choose. Look, I can’t be the only one who remembers the whole Y2K brouhaha and how that was supposed to mark the end of the world. I certainly spent enough time as a Y2K expert dispelling anxieties. I’m just amazed at how people can point to the End Times being imminent based on a few verses in Revelations and Paul’s letters, but ignore Christ Himself on the subject. He did, if I recall, say something about coming as a thief in the night and no one knowing when he was going to turn up. Come to think of it, that sounds like my brother! 😉 CJ ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2003, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957/20 "2003-08-10T12:08:45Z")
I recall taking a church class on End TIme Truths which pointed out that the EU was a the multi-headed serpent mentioned in Revelations. Of course that was in 1976. I take this line of reaoning less seriously now. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-european-union-fulfills-revelations/193957.md?page=2)