# So, the hostages in Iran weren't allowed to leave until the plane showed up with the 400mil... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 7, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057 "2016-08-07T17:44:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/1 "2016-08-07T17:44:32Z")
Does that make it ransom? I understand we had a previous agreement/settlement to pay them 1.7 billion. And the 400 million was just the first installment. I’m looking for a good argument as to why that first payment wasn’t ransom. Is it reasonable to call that first payment ransom? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/2 "2016-08-07T17:47:58Z")
It was _not_ a ransom payment. It may look and smell just like a ransom payment, but they told us it wasn’t so it wasn’t. You stop that now. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/3 "2016-08-07T17:57:36Z")
From Fortune Magazine: > **[5 Things You Need to Know About the $400 Million America Sent to Iran](https://fortune.com/2016/08/05/money-america-iran/)** > > Get the facts, as opposed to the spin, behind the controversy. > [@](#): > > Why the $400 Million Wasn’t Ransom > > The deal’s defenders insist that the financial negotiations were totally separate from both the nuclear deal and the hostage talks, and were led by three separate teams. It’s impossible to verify or refute that information. > > A stronger argument is that the U.S. had to make a big payment to Iran because of a 35-year-old deal for weapons that were never received. It wasn’t a matter of if, but when and how much. Washington was worried that the tribunal would impose a payment of several billion dollars, as Tehran demanded, and grabbed the opportunity to settle for the $1.7 billion as part of a overall pact at the same time Iran was benefiting from the nuclear agreement. > > It’s also reasonable to ask why Iran would release hostages in exchange for $400 million, when—according to the deal’s defenders—it was bound to get at least that amount from the Hague anyway, and could keep the hostages to boot. Of course, it’s impossible to verify if Tehran was truly convinced a bigger, though later, settlement was likely. Still, it’s clear that the payout from the $400 million dispute was coming, and would happen with or without a release of hostages. Best bet is that the Iranians spinned that as ramson anyway and even the hostages were told that for propaganda purpouses. I just checked the report of the hostage claiming what the OP reports, even the New York Post did note that it was not confirmed at all that the other plane that came in had the money. It looks like the report used weasel words just to keep the controversy going. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/4 "2016-08-07T19:13:13Z")
If the bill to Iran is now $1.3 billion, then it’s not ransom. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/5 "2016-08-07T20:12:50Z")
I guess you can make an argument that it doesn’t count as ransom because it’s Iranian money that was “frozen” back in the seventies. The American government just agreed to free up some money that belonged to the Iranian government. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/6 "2016-08-08T05:24:42Z")
“I won’t do A until you do B” doesn’t necessarily mean B is payment for A (or A for B). Say your neighbor borrowed $100 from you last week, and now wants to borrow your truck. You say “not until you pay me back the $100.” Does that mean he’s paying $100 to borrow your truck? Of course not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/7 "2016-08-08T12:16:25Z")
What is it if he hotwires your truck, parks it in his garage, and won’t give it back until you pay him money? > [@the Fortune link](#): > > The deal’s defenders insist that the financial negotiations were totally separate from both the nuclear deal and the hostage talks, and were led by three separate teams. It’s impossible to verify or refute that information. This is just lame. The money and the hostage release and the nukes are all part of the same deal. They are not separate. It doesn’t matter how many teams you have negotiating the deal. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/8 "2016-08-08T12:25:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What is it if he hotwires your truck, parks it in his garage, and won’t give it back until you pay him money?This is just lame. The money and the hostage release and the nukes are all part of the same deal. They are not separate. It doesn’t matter how many teams you have negotiating the deal. > > Regards, > Shodan Very possibly, but I don’t see how it matters. All of this was known, except that part of the payment was in the form of cash, months ago. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/9 "2016-08-08T12:58:29Z")
We gave them money and they released the prisoners. Whether or not we call it ransom doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/10 "2016-08-08T13:03:05Z")
Right - we have known for months that we were going to pay ransom. We didn’t know Obama was going to lie about it. [ul][li]The US does not pay ransom for hostages.[/li][li]If you like your coverage, you can keep it.[/li][li]The US did not lose the Viet Nam war.[/li][li]“Ah did not have sex with that woman”.[/ul][/li]Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/11 "2016-08-08T13:22:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What is it if he hotwires your truck, parks it in his garage, and won’t give it back until you pay him money? If it’s his money that I was supposed to pay him back long ago, then I wouldn’t consider it a ransom. If I don’t owe him money, and he has stolen the truck to coerce money from me, then it’s ransom. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/12 "2016-08-08T13:35:26Z")
“The US doesn’t pay ransom for hostages” and “the US doesn’t negotiate with terrorists” has always been one of those polite fictions that every administration says but none of them actually do. We’ve done both, in various forms, many, many times. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/13 "2016-08-08T13:38:32Z")
All I can think of is: "It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation, To puff and look important and to say: – “Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you. We will therefore pay you cash to go away.” And that is called paying the Dane-geld; But we’ve proved it again and again, That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld You never get rid of the Dane" ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/14 "2016-08-08T13:49:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “The US doesn’t pay ransom for hostages” and “the US doesn’t negotiate with terrorists” has always been one of those polite fictions that every administration says but none of them actually do. We’ve done both, in various forms, many, many times. Right. And it was stupid to make it formal policy in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/15 "2016-08-08T14:16:09Z")
It was not ransom, it was the Iranians’ own money. They won their case in court and they were owed it for arms purchased and never delivered. It had to be done in cash because there are no banking ties between the US and Iran and the money could not be wired. This is just another feeble attempt by the radical right to make Obama, and by extension Hillary, look bad. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/16 "2016-08-08T14:28:54Z")
The US has been giving Iran back some of the seized 1979 assets for years - IIRC, we gave them $3 billion in 2014 as part of this agreement. Hell, Reagan gave back over [$3 billion during his administration.](http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-13/news/mn-4265_1_iran-claims-tribunal) So payments to Iran in regards to their seized asset claims have been going on for 30+ years. Here’s the funny thing, though. This payment is to recompense Iran for $400 million of military equipment bought in 1979, and in recompense, they are getting… $400 million in 2016 dollars. Adjusted for inflation, they really should be getting $1.3 billion. Thanks for the interest free loan, guys! Of course, they were going to buy military equipment. Given inflation, [$1 in 1979 buys as much as $3.32 now](http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1&year1=1979&year2=2016). They are getting back their $400 million, which is really less than 1/3 of the inflation-adjusted amount they should be getting, to buy weapons which have increased in price by 3 times. So, the timeline: Iran buys $400 mill in weapons in 1978/79. Gives US the money Iran takes hostages US seizes assets - I assume the US Treasury gets all revenue from these assets? 35 years later, US as part of a 30+ year process of unfreezing these assets, gives Iran back the $400 mill, not adjusted for inflation. Iran, if they want to buy weapons with this money, now has to purchase weapons with this $400 mill, weapons that have also been subjected to inflation. So… running the numbers and worst case scenarios (we’re being told all this $ is going to fund weapons/terrorists/etc, right?), when all is said and done, Iran gave the US $400 million dollars in 1978 to buy an inflation-adjusted $120 million in weapons in 2016. #Winning! ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/17 "2016-08-08T14:40:05Z")
The $400 million was only partial payment. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/18 "2016-08-08T14:45:55Z")
Correction: The $3 billion mentioned above “… in 2014” was a cite I found in [a Business Insider article](http://www.businessinsider.com/whats-in-irans-100-billion-in-frozen-assets-2015-7)… which I can’t subsequently find a primary citation for. Regardless, the numbers still hold: We seized $400 mil, reaped the benefits of that $400m for almost 40 years, then gave Iran back an inflation-ravaged $400m. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/19 "2016-08-08T14:46:55Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > The $400 million was only partial payment. Shit, you’re right. :o You know what? Fuck Business Insider. 😛 And fuck me too for reading their shit… and then _citing_ them. :o ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057/20 "2016-08-08T15:12:31Z")
I am stunned the Obama Admin gave Iran 400 million in cash. What ever phooey they are selling that Iran can not take a check is pretty far fetched to me. Of course I know many will buy it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-hostages-in-iran-werent-allowed-to-leave-until-the-plane-showed-up-with-the-400mil/762057.md?page=2)