So the Neocons had no real evidence of WMD in Iraq.

[elfje]

*Originally posted by tagos *
**Absolutely. I will believe nothing from those two without independent verification. **

well, hopefully the Bush admin will be facilitating your request, as Blair has today rejested demands for an independant investigation:

Blair rejects demands for independent WMD inquiry

14:23 Tuesday June 3rd 2003

British Prime Minister Tony Blair has rejected demands from MPs in his own Labour Party to establish an independent inquiry into claims that he exaggerated the threat posed by Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction. Mr Blair had presented a dossier to the British public and the international community claiming that Iraq had the capability to launch chemical or biological weapons within 45 minutes. However, British intelligence sources have admitted that the source of this information was unreliable and that it was included in the dossier against the wishes of MI5 and MI6, the British intelligence agencies.

from here:
http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=27&si=36617
it’s good to be the king. Nice to be able to reject demands like that…like swatting off an annoying mozzie…

[Tee]

*Originally posted by Desmostylus *
**Earth to planet Tee. The intelligence wasn’t compelling. It was made up. That’s what this thread is about.

And no, it hasn’t panned out.**

well, no, it’s alleged to have been made up, and now alleged to be false, with zero evidence offered as to the administration’s guilt in anything. We do want to be fair and apply the same standards to both parties, don’t we. :dubious:

[Latro]

Good try Tee, almost Decembrist even. Bet you can’t even convince yourself of that one.

[quixotic78]

*Originally posted by Shodan *
Even if it is absolutely true that these are mobile weapons labs for the production of bio-weapons, you will not admit that the war to overthrow the regime possessing them is justified.

You’re damn right I won’t, not when there are alternatives. What’s more, the primary alternative, weapons inspectors, seems to have worked, as… there aren’t any damn weapons!!
**

As I have said earlier, the process of hand-waving and dismissing evidence out of hand can be applied to almost anything the US is likely to discover.**

As emphasized very nicely by Latro… what freakin’ evidence? You produce something concrete, and then we’ll talk. I can’t dismiss something that you aren’t even willing to provide without tons of conjecture and liters of speculation.
**

This is like arguing with creationists. They tend to deal with facts inconvenient to their position by pretending really hard that they don’t exist.**

Funny, I was going to apply the same characterization to your side (at least we can agree that the word “creationists” is a nice obscenity ). You label the slightest bit of conjecture as a “fact” and then cry foul when you’re not taken seriously. Meanwhile, all the facts that are inconvenient to YOUR position, such as missing WMDs, have an explanation which is comparable to “God did it” – they MUST have been destroyed just before we got there, because this makes total sense.

[Desmostylus]

*Originally posted by Scylla *
**Demo: Was it made up when Bill Clinton and Al Gore were going on about it in 1998?

Are you suggesting that Bill was just launching those cruise missiles to distract attention from his domestic problems? **

What do I care what Clinton did? I’m not from the U.S., and I couldn’t give a rat’s ass what party is in power there. Don’t suggest that I’m making any kind of statement about Clinton.

[quixotic78]

*Originally posted by Scylla *
**Are you suggesting that Bill was just launching those cruise missiles to distract attention from his domestic problems? **

I remember being outraged when I saw Clinton lobbing those missiles (and also because it preempted football) precisely because it seemed such a transparent bid to distract that nation from his domestic problems. Any charges of a partisan double-standard aren’t going to find a target here.

[casdave]

The justification for this war was challenged in the highest of international forums.

It was challenged on the basis of intelligence evidence, France, Russia and Germany have their operatives in Iraq (unless one is naive enough to believe they do not) and made their assessments on that basis.

They may have had other political motives, but then the US clearly has political motives for calling the war on.

France and Russia could easily have sided with the US and accrued all the benefits of closer alliance, but they did not, and must also have known it would damage international relations with the US.

Given that Bush and Blair used forged documents and also assessments based upon a 10 year old doctoral thesis, these are the ones who must prove themselves free of lying and misleading.

We have absolute, concrete and incontrovertible evidence that these two lied and misled given the previous paragraph.

Since theirs is a proven record of lies and deceit, why should we believe anything they say without any independant evidence to do so ?

They both lied already, and I have not begun to include the possibly altered intelligence reports, nor their own obvious bias, nor the lack of any proof to date, nearly 90 days after the war.

Bush and Blair have it all to do, not one of those so called current satellite photographs have checked out as a WMD site.

What part of this do Republicans not understand ?

Proof, provide it and I will be convinced, except it was clearly not the case that WMD were ready for ops in 45 minutes, yet another fabrication.

Proof please.

Not unverifiable reports from unreliable defectors.

Proof please.

Not “Let’s wait and see we will find something”

Proof please.

Not “we can’t figure what was really the true purpose of those trucks so by default they must have been used to produce WMD”

Proof please.

Not “Well he has used them before so he must still have them”

Proof please.

He was supposed to be years, then months away from producing nuclear weapons, such production faclities are not small enough to hide in a little cellar, it would take one heck of a cleanup job to wipe away radiatactive contamination.

Proof please.

Not"Well we found lots of gas masks and protective battle suits" The British military routinely equips all its personnel with them yet we do not have poison gas available for use.

It’s such a little thing to ask for, concrete proof, and despite threats, bribes, searches and an all out war, nothing.