# So, the "Shrub" Admin admits that global warming does exist,
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [June 3, 2002, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270 "2002-06-03T23:58:14Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2002, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/61 "2002-06-06T16:05:49Z")
RT, let me state for the record that I have seen this tactic from jab before, that I recognize his hostilely-worded leading question as an attempt to get into a fight, and that I have no intention of indulging him. Thus, I gave him the answer he was looking for so that he can sit back and feel smugly superior to the libertarians that he so hates.
If you don’t know me well enough by now to know that his characterization is not even close to my actual opinion, I don’t know what to say.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2002, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/62 "2002-06-06T18:17:54Z")
> [@](#):
>
> If you don’t know me well enough by now to know that his characterization is not even close to my actual opinion, I don’t know what to say.
Well, the reason I didn’t know what to think was that, on the one hand, I think I _do_ know you pretty well by now, and I _can’t_ see you putting principles ahead of people. But OTOH, I have to agree with **jab1** that that reasonably sets out the implications of your previously stated position.
So you see how that kinda leaves me not knowing what to think.
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### Author:  [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2002, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/63 "2002-06-06T18:30:41Z")
Wait a second, here, RT – I’m really offended by the idea that what jab said is an accurate characterization of what I said.
Given statements that you have made in the past concerning taking up arms on behalf of the United States government, and that you feel it would be wrong for you to do so because you have pledged your life to Christ and it is not yours to give up, how would you feel if I asked you, “Are you saying you would actually allow governments hostile to United States interests and mores to simply have their way and wreak havoc and misery on the world, rather than adopt a philosophical position you oppose and do the thing that could preserve freedom for all of us?”
You’d think it was utter horseshit, enough to gag a maggot off a shitwagon, and you’d be right to do so. Both because it was a question which exaggerated the premise and because it’s patently offensive to you as a person.
My position is that, given that there can be multiple approaches to solving any particular problem, I prefer the noncoercive ones and the ones that give government the smallest reasonable role. Cripes, I just typed a couple of hundred words up there about the type of problem-solving that I would be interested in seeing, as well as about a government that would be more responsive to its citizens interests. Was it invisible or something?
If you really, honestly think that jab’s statement, _as written_, is an accurate characterization of anything that I have said, then either you have gone bonkers or I need to take a remedial English course.
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### Author:  [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2002, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/64 "2002-06-06T18:47:49Z")
Addendum: It should also be noted that there is a universe of difference between asking whether I personally would adopt another political philosophy and whether I would abide by the policies of a government empowered by and operating under that philosophy. The answer to the former is, “No,” and the answer to the latter is, “Yes.”
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### Author:  [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2002, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/65 "2002-06-06T18:50:10Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by pldennison \*
> \*\*
>
> You’d think it was utter horseshit, enough to gag a maggot off a shitwagon, \*\*
I’m gonna write that one down.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2002, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/66 "2002-06-06T19:09:23Z")
“Mr. President?”
“Howdy, Karl! Geez, what do you think of these new Leggos? Bit too complicated, don’t you think…”
“Perhaps, sir. Mr. President, its about this “global warming” thing…”
“The American people don’t care about that. The American people don’t trust a bunch of bureaucrats. The American people don’t…”
“Well, sir, it might be wise to do a bit of image control on this…”
“Karl, you telling me to shut up again? You know I hate it when…”
“No, Mr. President, not at all, just a slightly different approach. Try to follow me here, sir. Now, you know, enviromental wackos are always talking about the Earth…”
“Yeah, sure, Al Gore wrote a whole damn book about it! Hell, I didn’t even read one, and I’m here and he’s in Knoxville, Mississippi, 'cause the American people…”
"Try to stay focused here, Mr. President. You know sometimes people use the name “Terra” when refering to “Earth…”
“I know all about Spanish, Karl.”
“Yes, sir. Quite. At any rate, people devoted to Stalin are called “Stalinists”. People devoted to Marx are called Marxists…”
The President furrows his brow, deeply absorbed in connecting the dots. His face lights up in the unfamiliar expression of comprehension.
“So people devoted to “Terra” are “terra-ists!” Terrists! You think the American people will buy that one?”
“You’re here, aren’t you, sir?”
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2002, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/67 "2002-06-06T21:39:09Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by pldennison \*
> My position is that, given that there can be multiple approaches to solving any particular problem, I prefer the noncoercive ones and the ones that give government the smallest reasonable role. Cripes, I just typed a couple of hundred words up there about the type of problem-solving that I would be interested in seeing, as well as about a government that would be more responsive to its citizens interests. Was it invisible or something?
Well, it was, in a sense. I was responding to where things stood after **jab** ’s post and your response, and since I’d read the first page, I figured I pretty much knew where you were coming from. I hadn’t read your response to **samclem** , and wasn’t expecting you to say anything like what was in there.
::sigh:: Regarding the language of libertarianism, I’m conditioned by two and a half years of debating with **Lib** and others of a similar philosophy. When a libertarian tells me he doesn’t want the government telling him what to do, I don’t just assume that means he doesn’t want the government telling him _exactly_ what to do - I assume it means he doesn’t even want the government using tax dollars to give incentives for certain behaviors and disincentives for others.
IOW, **I** apparently need the remedial reading course. I went off half-cocked, having not read all you’d written, and assuming you were saying something other than what you were in the parts I read. _Mea culpa._
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### Author:  [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2002, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/68 "2002-06-07T02:19:47Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by rjung \*
> \*\*
> Because these are moot points that are outweighed by the threat of human extinction? \*\*
Ok RJ, the threat of human extinction? Hee Hee. You wouldn’t happen to have, you know, a cite for that particular “threat”, would ya?
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2002, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/69 "2002-06-07T07:30:23Z")
You must have this forum confused with Great Debates, **milroyj** – cites around here just get in the way of the random cussing and venting. 😉
But I’ll give you an apt quote, howzat?
> [@](#):
>
> We think the planet’s a great place. We grew up here. We were made for it, and it’s just right for us … at the moment.
>
> Tell that to the dinosaurs.
(Ian Stewart, Jack Cohen and Terry Pratchett, “The Science of Discworld”)
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### Author:  [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2002, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/70 "2002-06-08T18:44:32Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by pldennison \*
> **My position is that, given that there can be multiple approaches to solving any particular problem, I prefer the noncoercive ones and the ones that give government the smallest reasonable role.**
And if the noncoercive ones don’t work…?
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### Author:  [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/71 "2002-06-08T23:50:57Z")
Take a hint, jab.
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### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/72 "2002-06-09T02:12:54Z")
> [@](#):
>
> **pld** : Here’s an idea for significantly reducing auto emissions: telecommuting. Offer real tax incentives to both businesses and individuals to encourage telecommuting and videoconferencing.
>
> Is something like this going to cut back auto emissions in the numbers that people are talking about? No, obviously not, and certainly not in isolation.
I’m not against telecommuting. But my understanding is that a study (reported in Scientific American?) indicated that its effectiveness in addressing traffic congestion was rather limited. I do not remember why. I conclude from that its impact on CO2 emissions would also be rather limited.
More generally, I don’t see how forcing people to pay for the damage that they do to the environment is “coercive” any more than making them pay for labor, capital or materials is. The beauty of emissions taxes is that the individuals can still decide how to spend their money - if they want to buy a big truck, that’s still ok. But they will have to pay for the damage that they inflict on others.
Most will choose to adapt in the way they best see fit.
Furthermore, I don’t see how passing “another law” conflicts with the Constitution. But, I’ll chalk the latter up to haste.
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### Author:  [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2002, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/73 "2002-06-09T04:56:06Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by rjung \*
> \*\*You must have this forum confused with Great Debates, **milroyj** – cites around here just get in the way of the random cussing and venting. 😉
>
> But I’ll give you an apt quote, howzat?
> (Ian Stewart, Jack Cohen and Terry Pratchett, “The Science of Discworld”) \*\*
Oh, I know cites are not commonly required in the Pit, but your assertion about the extinction of the human race seemed a bit over the top.
As for your quote, I believe it’s from authors of “science-FICTION”.
C’mon, even **December** does better than that! 🙂
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### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2002, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/74 "2002-06-09T05:54:14Z")
Well, if you want a nightmare scenerio, imagine what would happen if the Gulf Stream were disrupted.
We could have average temperatures rising in the world, while the UK and Europe suffers from a cold, wet death.
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2002, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-shrub-admin-admits-that-global-warming-does-exist/112270/75 "2002-06-09T07:45:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by milroyj \*
> As for your quote, I believe it’s from authors of “science-FICTION”.
Ian Stewart is a professor of mathematics at University of Warwick. Jack Cohen is a reproductive biologist at Warwick University. As far as I know, neither of them have written science fiction of any sort.
Terry Pratchett is, of course, reknown for his _Discworld_ series of **fantasdy** novels, though he has dabbled in sci-fi previously.
And being a science-fiction writer doesn’t mean the writer isn’t scientifically savvy, of course. Or have you forgotten Isaac Asimov already?
> [@](#):
>
> C’mon, even **December** does better than that! 🙂
_Now_ I’m insulted! 😉
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