# So ... the White House was an empty shell of a building **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 8, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838 "2008-11-08T20:40:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/1 "2008-11-08T20:40:57Z")
It was pointed out in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=490399) that when Truman was in the white house, it was essentially hollowed out to pretty much nothing but the empty shell. So … how the hell is it still haunted by a ghost in a specific room doing something specific? Did he have it rebuilt EXACTLY to the blueprints? Seems pretty funky to expect a ghost to change its haunting to suit the new floorplan… ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/2 "2008-11-08T21:47:25Z")
The GQ answer: Ghosts don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/3 "2008-11-08T21:59:52Z")
The other GQ answer. You can explain any behavior about “ghosts” you want because you’re making it up as you go along. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/4 "2008-11-08T22:16:26Z")
If one wants to believe in ghosts at all, it’s not uncommon for reports in newish buildings to be accounted for by the existence of a previous building on the site. e.g. Ponders End telephone exchange (L/HOW) which is supposed to be haunted by occupant of a previous building on the site. Unexplained footsteps have been heard when no one else on site. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/5 "2008-11-09T00:50:29Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > . . . how the hell is it still haunted by a ghost in a specific room doing something specific? Why would you believe such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/6 "2008-11-09T01:32:10Z")
Oh you unbelievers mock now. But when the _Alien Vampire Space Ghosts_ are _eating your face!!!_ who’ll be laughing then? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/7 "2008-11-09T01:40:21Z")
If you believe in ghosts, which I don’t, you get that kind of thing all the time - the music building at my alma mater is said to be haunted by the Blue Lady, who’s always doing something or other with a lantern before the Battle of Decatur. There’s a church tower involved, I think. Anyway, that music building was built in the early 1900’s on “the very spot”, and so that’s where you “see” her. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/8 "2008-11-09T03:57:37Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Why would you believe such a thing? Well, I keep reading about how haunted the white house is, and it seems that one of the haunted rooms is the Lincoln bedroom. Supposedly someone wanders into the room through the door and goes to the window [or maybe it is the other way, they appear by the window and walk out the door …does it really matter? I dont actually think the damned place is haunted…] So unless they follow the blueprints exactly, why is the ghost going in a door that wasnt where it was when they lived[died?] there, and going over to a window [that may not be in the same relationship to where the original door was.] Sort of how those roman legionaries are reputed to walk through the basement of some pub in britain exactly where the old roman road was [and they are either floating above the floor at the level of the original road, or sunk below the floor at the level of the original road] because _that_ was where the road was when they marched over it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/9 "2008-11-09T03:58:31Z")
> [@DeptfordX](#): > > Oh you unbelievers mock now. But when the _Alien Vampire Space Ghosts_ are _eating your face!!!_ who’ll be laughing then? I will. Alien Vampire Space Ghosts tickle. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/10 "2008-11-09T11:18:09Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > So unless they follow the blueprints exactly, why is the ghost going in a door that wasnt where it was when they lived[died?] there, and going over to a window [that may not be in the same relationship to where the original door was.] Why wouldn’t they? They’re intelligent right. Wait we don’t know ghost are intelligent or stupid, or stuck in the past or the present or any concrete rules if they do exist. This whole thread is unanswerable at this time, because it can only be speculated on. ---
**Author:** ![Punintentional](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9de0a6/32.png) [@Punintentional](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punintentional)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/11 "2008-11-09T11:44:17Z")
Can i clarify the question? You don’t think the White House is haunted, but if it was, why would a ghost follow the current floor plan and not a past one? Is there anything factual about your question? ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/12 "2008-11-09T12:35:26Z")
> [@Punintentional](#): > > Can i clarify the question? > > You don’t think the White House is haunted, but if it was, why would a ghost follow the current floor plan and not a past one? > > Is there anything factual about your question? The question is a valid one, the way I see it. “What is the traditional ghost-believer explanation to this”. You don’t have to believe it to understand it. Just as if I asked, “I was born on the 22 of June a minute before midnight, am I Leo or Capricorn?”. You don’t have to believe in astrology to know that by their rules, you would be a Libra, or whathaveyou. To the OP, give us some more details. Is this ghostly action “interacting” with the actual layout? You mentioned looking out a window, but those are probably the only thing that stays in place in a big remodel of a historic building. I understand that ghosts walk through wall precisely because as floor plans change, they keep doing their thing they way they did and walk through what were once doors and are now walls. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/13 "2008-11-09T13:07:50Z")
From [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White\_house:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_house:) > [@](#): > > By 1948, the house’s load-bearing exterior walls and internal wood beams were found to be close to failure. Under Harry S. Truman, the interior rooms were completely dismantled, resulting in the construction of a new internal load-bearing steel framework and the reassembly of the interior rooms. and > [@](#): > > By 1948, the house was declared to be in imminent danger of collapse, forcing President Truman to commission a reconstruction and move across the street to Blair House from 1949 to 1951.[sup][[25](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_house#cite_note-24)][/sup] The work, done by the firm of Philadelphia contractor John McShain, required the complete dismantling of the interior spaces, construction of a new load-bearing internal steel frame and the reconstruction of the original rooms within the new structure.[sup][[24](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_house#cite_note-wh_museum_1948-1952-23)][/sup] Some modifications to the floor plan were made, the largest being the repositioning of the grand staircase to open into the Entrance Hall, rather than the Cross Hall.[sup][[24](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_house#cite_note-wh_museum_1948-1952-23)][/sup] Central air conditioning was added, as well as two additional sub-basements providing space for workrooms, storage, and a bomb shelter. So it seems as though once they got the steel framework in place, they reassembled the rooms where they had been originally. Unless one is a mouse or cricket haunted by a ghost inside a particular wall, I would guess that the rooms would be familiar to any putative ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/14 "2008-11-09T13:14:35Z")
Sheesh- the ghost just haunted BLAIR House for a few years and then moved back. Do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you skeptics? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/15 "2008-11-09T13:16:09Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > The question is a valid one, the way I see it. “What is the traditional ghost-believer explanation to this”. You don’t have to believe it to understand it. Just as if I asked, “I was born on the 22 of June a minute before midnight, am I Leo or Capricorn?”. You don’t have to believe in astrology to know that by their rules, you would be a Libra, or whathaveyou. > > To the OP, give us some more details. Is this ghostly action “interacting” with the actual layout? You mentioned looking out a window, but those are probably the only thing that stays in place in a big remodel of a historic building. > > I understand that ghosts walk through wall precisely because as floor plans change, they keep doing their thing they way they did and walk through what were once doors and are now walls. [Pick a ghost story](http://www.haunted-places.com/WhiteHouseGhosts.htm) So if you look at the picture of the white house as a hollow shell [you cant get more hollow than a bulldozer runing around inside in what will become the basement] and agree that they rebuilt the inside totally… Why is Lincoln stomping around still? If the rooms and doors interior are all different, why would a ghost open a door that wasnt there when they were? Why would Abigail Adams be doing the laundry when the place didnt have plumbing originally … in a basement that was turfed down to raw dirt. Is she using a plumbed in sink [that hadnt been invented in her day] … ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/16 "2008-11-09T13:18:21Z")
If we saw the film of the ghost’s path, we could match it to the blueprints. Who’s got the film? ---
**Author:** ![Punintentional](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9de0a6/32.png) [@Punintentional](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punintentional)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/17 "2008-11-09T13:19:14Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > The question is a valid one, the way I see it. “What is the traditional ghost-believer explanation to this”. You don’t have to believe it to understand it. Just as if I asked, “I was born on the 22 of June a minute before midnight, am I Leo or Capricorn?”. You don’t have to believe in astrology to know that by their rules, you would be a Libra, or whathaveyou. If i answered “Well, i believe Capricorn runs from March to December, so you’re a Capricorn” would that answer be accepted? ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/18 "2008-11-09T13:56:14Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > “I was born on the 22 of June a minute before midnight, am I Leo or Capricorn?” Hey, that’s my birthday! Cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/19 "2008-11-09T16:05:42Z")
Old joke: [A President you hate] is wandering the halls of the White House late at night, dejected by how poorly his administration is doing. The ghosts of George Washington, Harry Truman and Abraham Lincoln appear to him. “What can I do, gentlemen, to turn things around?” the President asks desperately. “Be honest, and courageous, and statesmanlike, as I was,” Washington says. “Give 'em hell and do the right thing, like I did,” Truman says. “You should learn to relax,” Lincoln says. “Why not go to the theatre?” ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838/20 "2008-11-09T16:17:19Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Seems pretty funky to expect a ghost to change its haunting to suit the new floorplan… Yeah. If you follow the Sarah Winchester school of Hauntology Ghosts don’t deal with interior redesign well at all. 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-white-house-was-an-empty-shell-of-a-building/471838.md?page=2)