# So the whole MSG thing was racist hysteria? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [November 12, 2021, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223 "2021-11-12T04:02:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/1 "2021-11-12T04:02:34Z")
I’ve heard how bad msg was and knew a few people that made them sick…and even a few Asian cooks who declared it wasn’t even needed but this was an eyeopener [https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/nutrition/we-can-t-talk-about-msg-without-talking-about-racism/ar-AAQBbjV?li=BBnba9O&ocid=SK2DDHP](https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/nutrition/we-can-t-talk-about-msg-without-talking-about-racism/ar-AAQBbjV?li=BBnba9O&ocid=SK2DDHP) Is it time for a cocoanut oil style comeback for msg? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/2 "2021-11-12T04:04:47Z")
No comments about the article, but the idea that the MSG hysteria was rooted in racism/xenophobia is nothing new. I’m glad to see MSG experiencing a bit of a clean-up in its reputation. I’ve for many years avoided places that advertised “no MSG.” I like my MSG! Gimme gimme gimme! (For example, here’s an article from 2013 about the racist/xenophobic undercurrents of MSG hate: [The Secret, 'Vaguely Racist' History Of MSG Fear-Mongering](https://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-08/secret-vaguely-racist-history-msg-fear-mongering/)) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/3 "2021-11-12T04:12:37Z")
Anytime someone tells me that MSG gives them headaches, I ask if they get the same reaction when they eat tomatoes, mushrooms, or cheese, or when they drink milk, because all of those have a lot more MSG in them than the little bit of Accent I’m sprinkling into my carne asada marinade. I’ve noticed companies are getting clever with their labeling as of late - I was stocking at the grocery store I work at the other day and noticed a carton of chicken broth was labeled “NO ADDED MSG” in big letters, with the fine print reading “some glutamate naturally occuring in yeast extract”. One wonders if they would have bothered adding yeast extract if not for the fact that it allows them to add MSG without adding MSG. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/4 "2021-11-12T04:15:03Z")
Or the many types of processed foods they likely eat which have MSG in them, delivered by whichever obfuscated ingredient the manufacturer chooses . ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/5 "2021-11-12T04:16:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “NO ADDED MSG” in big letters, with the fine print reading “glutamate naturally occuring in yeast extract”. Exactly. They do this crap with all those “uncured sausages/deli meats” out there. “Uncured” implying not containing nitrates/nitrites. Except, of course, by all those naturally occurring in the celery juice or celery extract they use, which may even contain more nitrates/nitrites than a traditionally cured product. That bit of labeling/marketing misdirection annoys the hell out of me. I similarly refuse to buy any such product. And, of course, curing does not necessarily need nitrates/nitrates. Salt will cure something just fine – you just need to use more of it for a properly cured product that will keep long. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/6 "2021-11-12T04:21:41Z")
So people love Chinese food but are racist about MSG? Can’t it just be that people are stupid and assume it’s some nasty chemical? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/7 "2021-11-12T04:23:32Z")
That is part of it. MSG sounds scary. Monosodium glutamate even moreso. But there was also this idea that Chinese/Asian restaurants used inferior products (remember all the jokes about dog or cat or rat or whatever random animal being scrounged up being used in the food) and that MSG was being used to make up for this lack of quality (not that most people thought random neighborhood animals were being used, but that lesser cuts of beef or whatnot were and the MSG was there to compensate.) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/8 "2021-11-12T04:24:39Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That bit of labeling/marketing misdirection annoys the hell out of me. I similarly refuse to buy any such product. I don’t refuse to buy such products, but I just find it amusing the lengths manufacturers will go through to market their product towards whatever potentially pseudoscientific food trend is popular at the moment. Like labeling things “gluten-free” when there’s no reason the product would ever have contained gluten in the first place (e.g. flavored sparkling water), or “HORMONE-FREE” on corn dogs or chicken nuggets with the fine print reading “federal regulations prohibit the use of hormones in poultry”, or the ubiquitous disclaimer on dairy products that boast that their milk comes from non-rGBH cows. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/9 "2021-11-12T04:25:27Z")
I don’t buy it because why in the hell do I want an “uncured sausage” if it’s supposed to be (not talking raw sausages, but traditionally cured products)? Gimme the normally cured stuff that isn’t pretending to be something it’s not, and is made how it’s supposed to be made. Like, to me, an “uncured ham” is just a leg of pork. It’s not ham. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/10 "2021-11-12T04:25:53Z")
Oh yeah, I’d forgotten those urban legends. It was always about the pigeons and stray cats disappearing around the Chinese restaurants, har har. Okay, racist and stupid wins the day yet again. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/11 "2021-11-12T04:26:44Z")
I’m not saying it’s necessarily consciously racist (and most racism isn’t), but there is that fear of Chinese using substandard stuff in the food – who knows what kind of crazy chemicals they put in it? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/12 "2021-11-12T04:29:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not saying it’s necessarily consciously racist (and most racism isn’t), but there is that fear of Chinese using substandard stuff in the food It falls into the same category as “Mexican food gives you diarrhea” as claimed by white-bread Midwesterners who consider Taco Bell to be “ethnic food” and think bell peppers are “spicy”. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/13 "2021-11-12T04:31:15Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > No comments about the article, but the idea that the MSG hysteria was rooted in racism/xenophobia is nothing new. I’m glad to see MSG experiencing a bit of a clean-up in its reputation. I’ve for many years avoided places that advertised “no MSG.” I like my MSG! Gimme gimme gimme! Growing up, I thought MSG was some sort of artificial food additive like aspartame. And I was always quite confused over how it was only seemingly a problem with Chinese food. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/14 "2021-11-12T04:36:16Z")
What’s weird is that a lot of people I know who seem to be wary (or who at least were wary) of MSG were perfectly fine using stuff like bouillon cubes, gravy mixes, etc. in their cooking. Umm … have you not read the labels of those things? My Knorr branded bouillon starts with the ingredients: “Salt, Monosodium glutamate”. It doesn’t even hide behind “autolyzed yeast extract” or things like that. Stock cubes or powders have been staples of a lot of American home cooking and are loaded with the stuff. Even my “Better Than Bouillon” has it as “hydrolyzed soy protein.” That’s essentially MSG (up to 30% of it is straight-up MSG). My Hidden Valley Ranch dressing dry seasoning packet? MSG is right there in the ingredients. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/15 "2021-11-12T04:36:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Anytime someone tells me that MSG gives them headaches, I ask if they get the same reaction when they eat tomatoes, mushrooms, or cheese, or when they drink milk, because all of those have a lot more MSG in them than the little bit of Accent I’m sprinkling into my carne asada marinade. Years ago, I had a girlfriend who loved Chinese food, but would only go to such places if they advertised, “No MSG,” because apparently, it gave her headaches. Weirdly, she had no problems with “tomatoes, mushrooms, or cheese”–in fact, they were among her favourite pizza toppings! ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/16 "2021-11-12T04:53:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It falls into the same category as “Mexican food gives you diarrhea” as claimed by white-bread Midwesterners who consider Taco Bell to be “ethnic food” and think bell peppers are “spicy”. Some of this may be related to food aversion (in addition to racism of course). Before pizza was practically an American staple, you would see comic characters like Beetle Bailey blame bad dreams on things like that spicy pepperoni they had for dinner. Oh, and when I moved to Arkansas from Texas I came to realize that spicy doesn’t mean the same thing in those two states. I’m not a spice freak or anything, but if you go to a restaurant in Arkansas and they tell you its spicy there’s a 90% chance it isn’t. I’ve ordered medium spicy and wasn’t able to tell it was supposed to be spicy. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/17 "2021-11-12T04:57:35Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Except, of course, by all those naturally occurring in the celery juice or celery extract they use I’ve always gotten a kick out of seeing “No Preservatives!” on a bag of salt and vinegar potato chips. What do they think salt and vinegar are? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/18 "2021-11-12T05:04:39Z")
Psychosomatic triggers can bring on a migraine. But every time I bring this issue about MSG up, people here with headaches wont believe it, no matter how many cites I use. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/19 "2021-11-12T05:12:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I don’t refuse to buy such products, but I just find it amusing the lengths manufacturers will go through to market their product towards whatever potentially pseudoscientific food trend is popular at the moment. Like labeling things “gluten-free” **when there’s no reason the product would ever have contained gluten in the first place** I still remember the sense of betrayal I felt when I first learned that cholesterol is only found in meats, so all those purely plant-based products proudly saying they were “cholesterol-free!” were basically bragging about basic food science. 😡 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223/20 "2021-11-12T05:14:35Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Growing up, I thought MSG was some sort of artificial food additive like aspartame. And I was always quite confused over how it was only seemingly a problem with Chinese food. That’s not _totally_ wrong, though. Glutamates of course appear naturally in many foods. But MSG was not isolated as a separate chemical until 1908 by the biochemist Kikunae Ikeda, and was popular in Asia before the West. That doesn’t make up for the racism, though. Or the stupidity in pretending some glutamate-containing additive is somehow different from just adding MSG (not too different from claims of “no sugar added!” when they add a ton of concentrated apple juice). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-the-whole-msg-thing-was-racist-hysteria/954223.md?page=2)