# So, this is it (Syria) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113 "2013-08-25T06:41:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/281 "2013-09-01T13:55:40Z")
John Kerry now says there is evidence sarin gas was used - thanks John, we’d all be lost without you: is it last week again already? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/282 "2013-09-01T13:57:34Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Again that strikes me as extremely preposterous. Well, that’s you. As I said, in the absence of an impossible to obtain proof, one should be able to put together 2 and 2 at a meta level of a discussion. At this point, I really don’t care how it happened - the fact is that mass-media outlet is prepping population with carefully placed articles that otherwise, without the context of Syria and Russian opposition, would not make any sense (but then, it would not be there). Since we can establish that articles on CNN site are not determined by a randomizer, one can engage in a meaningful debate on why would such an article appear so prominently on the home page of CNN. In terms of actual debate about placement of this article, value of “extremely preposterous” argument is nil. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/283 "2013-09-01T13:59:59Z")
> [@camille](#): > > That’s nice. So, are you disputing Operation Mockingbird, or just ignoring my question so you can indulge in a rant about things no one has mentioned here? He’s only disputing that Mossad had anything to do with 9/11 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/284 "2013-09-01T14:23:36Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Yes, _if_ the evidence is a slam dunk. Are you sure that is the phrase you want to use, Mr. Tenet? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/285 "2013-09-01T15:27:00Z")
> [@camille](#): > > To be fair, he did say he had no evidence for this particular instance. But why does the very idea that the CIA would influence the media strike you as “extremely preposterous”? Have you really never heard of [Operation Mockingbird](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird)? Are you serious? A decades old operation that was revealed to the public more than a generation ago? That’s your evidence? That’s a bit like saying that because Newcomer’s posts are largely incoherent Conspiracy Theorist nonsense, that it’s pretty reasonable to think that the CIA is drugging him just like in MK Ultra. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > For his sake I hope he’s never ridiculed people who claimed that Hollywood was run by a Jewish cabal or that the Mossad was behind 911. Not sure what his stance on a Jewish cabal controlling Hollywood, but he supports the belief that the Mossad was behind 9/11. > [@Is Robert Fisk all he's cracked up to be?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-robert-fisk-all-hes-cracked-up-to-be/569039/27): > > I understand that it is always easier to go along to get along so if that’s your thing fine. But if you can swallow that fiery explosion and burning kerosene destroys steel beams but terrorist passports survive in the debris then I want what you’re on. If you can swallow naming the terrorists only for several of them to show up in various places well and alive, again, great for you. If you can swallow that witnesses saw Mossad agents high-fiving each other on top of the van at the sight of burning Twin Towers and they go free, again, great, I admire your rectitude. But please don’t go around and preach because common sense is not your thing. > [@My wife came out to me as a Truther](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-came-out-to-me-as-a-truther/593502/75): > > As for implications, they can be of any form possible but one will never know unless investigation is conducted. If there was an investigation that was carried out the way investigation in, say, whereabouts of various 9/11 suspects was done, I’d probably drop the subject. But, my understanding is, the investigation got abruptly stopped by White House at the time (2001/2002) and… well, that’s it. > > I think it is perfectly valid and rational to point to questions unanswered because many people do not recall very well. It was briefly in the news and then never mentioned again. > [@My wife came out to me as a Truther](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-wife-came-out-to-me-as-a-truther/593502/117): > > I wonder if some Palestinian Doper (we never hear from them, damn it) would be so galling to argue “acting like assholes” if those guys on the van were Palestinians (or anyone else for that matter). What’s also notable is that many others take that as quite a rational and self-sufficient characterization of the event. No issue there. > > What strikes me is the sheer offensive odour of banality espoused by this phrase “acting like assholes”. Yeah, that’s what agents of secret organizations do all the time. Mickey Mouse, obviously CIA. Donald Duck gives up his MI5 association every time he speaks. > > Hilarious. > > On another question, I have no beliefs. I have a fact that investigation halted. > > Silly evidence such as passports surviving in the heart of the explosion while temperature burned iron or issues with some of the hijackers’ names of the real, living people somewhere in the ME – that can only be believed because it is totally outside of the realm of possibilities to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Which, of course, is why I was curious if he had any evidence, at all, to back up his new Conspiracy Theory that the CIA controls CNN. I suppose that raises the question of who controls the CIA, but I wonder if it has anything to do with whoever it is that, ahem, controls the US government and intelligence agencies to the point where they’ll have agents of the Mossad caught dead to rights as 9/11 conspirators, and then just let them go and bury the information. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/286 "2013-09-01T15:43:49Z")
The plot thickens! [Here,](http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/01/exclusive-dozens-of-cia-operatives-on-the-ground-during-benghazi-attack/) we have CNN calling out the CIA, which newcomer tells us, controls CNN. Obviously it’s a False Flag Operation. After all, if [del]the[/del] CIA “plants articles in regular newspapers all the time” and it’s “[p]repping the population to recall Russia for what it is”, obviously CNN was reporting on CIA involvement in order to cover up the real fact: that of [del]the[/del]Mossad’s involvement. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/287 "2013-09-01T15:51:40Z")
Of course the CIA plants articles: were you born yesterday? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/288 "2013-09-01T16:03:29Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Of course the CIA plants articles: were you born yesterday? We won’t know unless we see his birth certificate! ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/289 "2013-09-01T16:12:54Z")
boom boom! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/290 "2013-09-01T16:14:51Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Of course the CIA plants articles Cite? Then a cite for Newcomer’s claim that the CIA is the force behind CNN’s recent editorial policies. Or is your argument entirely backed up by ad hominem and innuendo? Unless I was whooshed, in which case, ah well. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/291 "2013-09-01T16:18:47Z")
> [@camille](#): > > That’s nice. So, are you disputing Operation Mockingbird, or just ignoring my question so you can indulge in a rant about things no one has mentioned here? Your post is ridiculous. No, I’m not disputing Mockingbird, an operation that happened 60 years ago and about 30 or so years before CNN was even founded. I’m merely saying that people who think that CNN put up a story about Russia shooting down the Korean airliner in the 80s are being extremely foolish. Based on your logic it’s absurd to deny the CIA murdered Kennedy because the CIA has engaged in assassinations. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/292 "2013-09-01T16:24:43Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Of course the CIA plants articles: were you born yesterday? No, I wasn’t born yesterday, nor was anyone who naively argues that CNN put up a story on their website because the CIA told them to. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/293 "2013-09-01T16:27:04Z")
Is that your definition of ‘planted’ - being told to do something? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/294 "2013-09-01T16:43:51Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Is that your definition of ‘planted’ - being told to do something? Newcomer’s original post made it clear that CNN put up that article about the Korean airliner on their website because they were told to do so. So anyway, are you suggesting that you think that CNN put up that article on their website about the shooting down of the Korean airliner because of the CIA? If so, please explain because that strikes me as extremely paranoid and extremely stupid and if you do I hope you’ve never ridiculed any of the people who insisted 911 was an inside job. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/295 "2013-09-01T16:48:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So anyway, are you suggesting that you think that CNN put up that article on their website about the shooting down of the Korean airliner because of the CIA? I am sure the fact that it was a 30 year anniversary of the shooting down of the flight had nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/296 "2013-09-01T16:59:45Z")
Anniversaries are a CIA plot. I keep telling my girlfriend that, but she won’t believe me. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/297 "2013-09-01T17:22:26Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Are you serious? A decades old operation that was revealed to the public more than a generation ago? That’s your evidence? > That’s a bit like saying that because Newcomer’s posts are largely incoherent Conspiracy Theorist nonsense, that it’s pretty reasonable to think that the CIA is drugging him just like in MK Ultra. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Your post is ridiculous. > > No, I’m not disputing Mockingbird, an operation that happened 60 years ago and about 30 or so years before CNN was even founded. > > I’m merely saying that people who think that CNN put up a story about Russia shooting down the Korean airliner in the 80s are being extremely foolish. > > Based on your logic it’s absurd to deny the CIA murdered Kennedy because the CIA has engaged in assassinations. You both need to put down the grudge juice - it’s affecting your reading comprehension (and ability to form appropriate analogies). I don’t know this poster’s history, but I do know it shouldn’t be dredged up in this thread. FTR, I have no idea or opinion about CNN’s relationship with the CIA, but, based on the past history I cited, it would not be “extremely preposterous” to entertain the idea that the CIA (or other govt entity) would influence the media. Of course one would expect evidence if a specific claim was made. Please take note that I made no such claim. I was addressing Ibn’s hyperbolic reply, not offering evidence of any particular incident. Your opinion of **newcomer** , and/or his general coherence, and/or what he claimed in other threads, is besides the point, and it certainly should have no bearing on your response to my post. Try answering the question on its own merits: Do you think it is “extremely preposterous” to suspect that the government would influence the media? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/298 "2013-09-01T17:36:15Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Try answering the question on its own merits: Do you think it is “extremely preposterous” to suspect that the government would influence the media? Of course governments try and do influence the media. I think it is “extremely preposterous” to think that posting an article about flight 007 on the 30th anniversary of the incident was done under the government’s influence. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/299 "2013-09-01T17:48:34Z")
> [@camille](#): > > You both need to put down the grudge juice - it’s affecting your reading comprehension (and ability to form appropriate analogies). I don’t know this poster’s history, but I do know it shouldn’t be dredged up in this thread. > > FTR, I have no idea or opinion about CNN’s relationship with the CIA, but, based on the past history I cited, it would not be “extremely preposterous” to entertain the idea that the CIA (or other govt entity) would influence the media. Of course one would expect evidence if a specific claim was made. Please take note that I made no such claim. I was addressing Ibn’s hyperbolic reply, not offering evidence of any particular incident. > > Your opinion of **newcomer** , and/or his general coherence, and/or what he claimed in other threads, is besides the point, and it certainly should have no bearing on your response to my post. > > Try answering the question on its own merits: Do you think it is “extremely preposterous” to suspect that the government would influence the media? Er… the question wasn’t whether or not governments tried to influence the media. The obvious response to such a question is “duh”. The question is whether or not the CIA was responsible for CNN running an article about the shooting down of a Korean airliner on the 30th anniversary of the event. The obvious response is that such a claim is laughably stupid. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113/300 "2013-09-01T17:49:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Of course governments try and do influence the media. I think it is “extremely preposterous” to think that posting an article about flight 007 on the 30th anniversary of the incident was done under the government’s influence. I agree - they are two different claims. I posted my question because I did not think that Ibn was making the distinction clear in his replies to newcomer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-it-syria/667113.md?page=16)