# So, this is what it looks like before the war. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 19, 2016, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407 "2016-11-19T07:25:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/141 "2016-11-21T01:45:42Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > People aren’t just “discussing” things – they’re freaking out and claiming we’re going to start building concentration camps. Considering that they are _already_ talking about internment camps? What makes you assume we _won’t?_ Or that camps are the only way to kill lots of people? I expect we’re going to see a return of [good old fashioned race riots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot), with white mobs storming black neighborhoods killing everything they see and burning it to the ground while the police stand by or join in. With Trump and the Republicans and quite a few SDMB members shaking their heads in mock sadness and saying that things like that wouldn’t happen if blacks weren’t all criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/142 "2016-11-21T02:47:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Considering that they are _already_ talking about internment camps? What makes you assume we _won’t?_ Who is “they”? Trump? Trump’s cabinet? Some random assholes on TV? I must have missed this news. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/143 "2016-11-21T03:00:10Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Who is “they”? Trump? Trump’s cabinet? Some random assholes on TV? I must have missed this news. You certainly have, [it’s](http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-supporter-internment-camps-20161117-story.html) been all over. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/144 "2016-11-21T03:08:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You certainly have, [it’s](http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-supporter-internment-camps-20161117-story.html) been all over. Right, so a random asshole on TV. I saw that story, and failed to understand why it was a story. IIRC the subject was on the reinstatement of a post-911 vetting law that was discontinued in 2011 and is now back on the table. For all I know it’s a shitty law, but not anything close to Japanese internment. I only get bits and pieces of the non-stories since I left Facebook, so I thought I might have missed Trump saying, “Why yes! Muslim Internment sounds like a wonderful idea!” Guess not. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/145 "2016-11-21T03:09:55Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Who is “they”? Trump? Trump’s cabinet? Some random assholes on TV? I must have missed this news. My bold within the quoted passages below. > [@](#): > > Trump Camp’s Talk of Registry and Japanese Internment Raises Muslim Fears > > A prominent supporter of Donald J. Trump set off concern and condemnation from Muslims on Wednesday after **citing World War II-era Japanese-American internment camps as a “precedent”** for an immigrant registry suggested by a member of the president-elect’s transition team. > > The supporter, Carl Higbie, a former spokesman for Great America PAC, an independent fund-raising committee, made the comments in an appearance on “The Kelly File” on Fox News. > > He was referring to a suggestion by Kris Kobach, a member of Mr. Trump’s transition team, that the new administration could reinstate a national registry for immigrants from countries where terrorist groups were active. > > [Whole Article](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/us/politics/japanese-internment-muslim-registry.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0) George Takei in the Washington Post-- he and his family were interned: > [@](#): > > There is dangerous talk these days by those who have the ear of some at the highest levels of government. Earlier this week, Carl Higbie, an outspoken Trump surrogate and co-chair of Great America PAC, gave an interview with Megyn Kelly of Fox News. They were discussing the notion of a national Muslim registry, a controversial part of the Trump administration’s national security plans, when Higbie dropped a bombshell: “We did it during World War II with Japanese, which, you know, call it what you will,” he said. Was he really citing the Japanese American internment, Kelly wanted to know, as grounds for treating Muslims the same way today?\*\* Higbie responded that he wasn’t saying we should return to putting people in camps. But then he added, “There is precedent for it.”\*\* > > [Whole Article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/18/george-takei-they-interned-my-family-dont-let-them-do-it-to-muslims/) Semi-ninja’d. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/146 "2016-11-21T03:12:38Z")
In four or eight years we’ll be looking back on this thread and saying, \*“You know how people predicted that Trump would be Hitler 2.0 and unleash a Fourth Reich on America? Yeah, like numerous other such breathless predictions, that didn’t happen…” \* ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/147 "2016-11-21T03:20:52Z")
You going to predict that _none_ of them will happen? Or just this one? Because Andrew Douche Cray has inspired a metric buttload of them. But they are all just the dark fantasies of raving lefties? Because, really, deep down, he’s a pretty decent guy, is that it? About the only thing he hasn’t done is open up his own line of payday lenders. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/148 "2016-11-21T03:21:17Z")
In four years, we’ll be looking back on this thread and saying, “Those morons who didn’t listen then are still clueless today.” Trump campaigned to the lowest impulses and most simplistic worldviews in our electorate. He’s appointing and nominating the most extreme and hateful members of our polity to his administration. And he continues to be the same thin-skinned, vengeful and petty narcissist he was on the campaign trail. Yeah, we should all be worried. [Here’s](http://www.stonekettle.com/2016/11/quacks-like-duck.html) a similar take from a retired USN CWO. If you think Navy warrant officers are given to flights of fancy and hysteria, I suggest you go tell one of them that to their face. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/149 "2016-11-21T03:21:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In four or eight years we’ll be looking back on this thread and saying, \*“You know how people predicted that Trump would be Hitler 2.0 and unleash a Fourth Reich on America? Yeah, like numerous other such breathless predictions, that didn’t happen…” > \* I will roundly condemn Trump’s bullshit and his administration’s bullshit. Frankly I have fantasies about spitting in the guy’s face, but I still think he’s a far cry from Hitler. I will become alarmed when and if authoritarian shit starts happening, and if the government becomes part of a systematic mass oppression of civil rights, I will enthusiastically become part of a strategic non-violent movement to stop it (I mean hell, I already am, as a macro social worker.) I’ll be in the new Underground Railroad or whatever the thing is to do. I’ll be first against the wall when the revolution comes. It ain’t here yet. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/150 "2016-11-21T03:22:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You going to predict that _none_ of them will happen? Or just this one? Because Andrew Douche Cray has inspired a metric buttload of them. But they are all just the dark fantasies of raving lefties? Because, really, deep down, he’s a pretty decent guy, is that it? About the only thing he hasn’t done is open up his own line of payday lenders. I’m willing to predict that Trump is not going to establish concentration camps, commit ethnic cleansing, or declare martial law and suspend the Constitution, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/151 "2016-11-21T03:26:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m willing to predict that Trump is not going to establish concentration camps, commit ethnic cleansing, or declare martial law and suspend the Constitution, yes. Aren’t you the guy who always defends cops when they kill black people? You wouldn’t admit that they were doing any of those things even if you were on a guard tower manning a machine gun. You’d just say the victims were all criminals who had it coming so it doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/152 "2016-11-21T03:33:42Z")
Comforted by such authority, I will sleep well tonight. OK, let’s just say, as a given, that internment camps are not the point of the exercise. They have no intention of doing it, they simply want to assert that they have the power to do so! Well, that’s sure a relief, given the level of trust they inspire. They will not arm the white trash to shoot all the blacks? No. Will they continue to maneuver to oppress and harass minority voting. Oh, yeah, for sure. Declare martial law. Nope, just good ol’ fashioned law and order. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/153 "2016-11-21T03:45:36Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > In four years, we’ll be looking back on this thread and saying, “Those morons who didn’t listen then are still clueless today.” > > Trump campaigned to the lowest impulses and most simplistic worldviews in our electorate. He’s appointing and nominating the most extreme and hateful members of our polity to his administration. And he continues to be the same thin-skinned, vengeful and petty narcissist he was on the campaign trail. > > Yeah, we should all be worried. I agree. So what are we going to do about it? Undermine American democracy by making it so Trump can’t be President? That will go over well. Yell about it in the streets? People seem to love being yelled at. People especially love riots, should we riot? Shit, right now some conservatives can’t even handle diplomatic, polite, confrontation by the cast of a Broadway musical without flipping their shit. They flat out will not hear our fear and our rage and we can’t force them without ourselves becoming the thing we loathe. I don’t understand how catastrophizing this situation helps, I really don’t. It’s not like we can go back for a do - over if we panic enough. We can’t alter reality. These people have the power now. We can only move forward one horrible policy at a time. I am sincerely and truly invested in the best outcome for this country, and see nothing but this sort of inflammatory speech on the left making communication even more difficult. There are too many monkeys to put back in the barrel. We can’t just marginalize and shame people into compliance… That’s the reason we lost the election in the first place, definitive proof that this strategy does not work. We’re going to have to do better if we want to save this country. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/154 "2016-11-21T03:57:19Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > We can’t just marginalize and shame people into compliance… That’s the reason we lost the election in the first place, definitive proof that this strategy does not work. We’re going to have to do better if we want to save this country. That is emphatically \*\*\*not \*\*\*why “we” lost the election. We lost the election because too many Democrats participated in -and too many more believed in- either the demonization of Hillary Clinton or the disdain of political process or the denigration of government itself. Those are the things we need to fight, as we educate others about what government is and does and _can_ do. And if that fight needs to occasionally include the “marginalization” of idiot opinions and attitudes, no American who cares about government should hesitate to so marginalize. Or deride, dispute, mock, label or look down upon. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/155 "2016-11-21T04:00:43Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I agree. > > So what are we going to do about it? Undermine American democracy by making it so Trump can’t be President? That will go over well. Yell about it in the streets? People seem to love being yelled at. People especially love riots, should we riot? Shit, right now some conservatives can’t even handle diplomatic, polite, confrontation by the cast of a Broadway musical without flipping their shit. They flat out will not hear our fear and our rage and we can’t force them without ourselves becoming the thing we loathe. I don’t understand how catastrophizing this situation helps, I really don’t. It’s not like we can go back for a do - over if we panic enough. We can’t alter reality. These people have the power now. We can only move forward one horrible policy at a time. > > I am sincerely and truly invested in the best outcome for this country, and see nothing but this sort of inflammatory speech on the left making communication even more difficult. There are too many monkeys to put back in the barrel. We can’t just marginalize and shame people into compliance… That’s the reason we lost the election in the first place, definitive proof that this strategy does not work. We’re going to have to do better if we want to save this country. What can be done is the exact opposite of what’s going on here, namely, over emotional reactions clouding the perception of reality that affects the decision making process of the people. For instance I can’t take seriously people that on one hand claim that Trump won via fear mongering and promoting bigotry and on the other hand predict he’ll unleash a Holocaust and accuse everyone who voted for him of being evil incarnate. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/156 "2016-11-21T04:19:26Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I will roundly condemn Trump’s bullshit and his administration’s bullshit. Frankly I have fantasies about spitting in the guy’s face, but **I still think he’s a far cry from Hitler.** I will become alarmed when and if authoritarian shit starts happening, and if the government becomes part of a systematic mass oppression of civil rights, I will enthusiastically become part of a strategic non-violent movement to stop it (I mean hell, I already am, as a macro social worker.) I’ll be in the new Underground Railroad or whatever the thing is to do. I’ll be first against the wall when the revolution comes. It ain’t here yet. My bold. Well, when Hitler started out, **he** was a far cry from Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/157 "2016-11-21T04:27:15Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > That is emphatically \*\*\*not \*\*\*why “we” lost the election. We lost the election because too many Democrats participated in -and too many more believed in- either the demonization of Hillary Clinton or the disdain of political process or the denigration of government itself. Those are the things we need to fight, as we educate others about what government is and does and _can_ do. And if that fight needs to occasionally include the “marginalization” of idiot opinions and attitudes, no American who cares about government should hesitate to so marginalize. Or deride, dispute, mock, label or look down upon. Can’t both be true? Why the single, unwavering narrative, the one and only cause? How well does that track with the political and historical complexity of the United States? Even if we’d won, we would have still had a huge proportion of votes going for Trump and the reason for that is likely way more complex than “dumb and racist.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/158 "2016-11-21T04:30:53Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > My bold. > > Well, when Hitler started out, **he** was a far cry from Hitler. People keep talking like Hitler was some uniquely evil being who rose bodily from Hell and seized power, instead of just another murderous dictator. This refusal to permit comparison to Hitler has helped enable the rise of neo-fascism, because it means the more Hitler-like people are, the more immune they become to criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/159 "2016-11-21T04:32:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Aren’t you the guy who always defends cops when they kill black people? I defend the police when they shoot to kill in justified self-defense. The race of the person being shot at is irrelevant. > [@](#): > > You wouldn’t admit that they were doing any of those things even if you were on a guard tower manning a machine gun. You’d just say the victims were all criminals who had it coming so it doesn’t count. I’m not aware of “brownness” being a crime. > [@elucidator](#): > > OK, let’s just say, as a given, that internment camps are not the point of the exercise. They have no intention of doing it, they simply want to assert that they have the power to do so! Well, that’s sure a relief, given the level of trust they inspire. “They”, thus far, consisting of one guy who isn’t part of the Trump administration and didn’t actually say he supported internment camps. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407/160 "2016-11-21T04:44:12Z")
I think there needs to be agreement on what exactly being a “Hitler” entails before we can debate whether Trump will be a Hitler. Some things Hitler did were comparatively “mild,” others were extreme. \*\*Persecution of political opponents \*\*= sure, I can believe Trump might try this **Genocide on a massive scale** = not a chance **Invasion and conquest of many foreign countries** = Highly doubtful Trump would try to do this \*\*Be a dictator of Kim Jong Un-level supreme power \*\*= Highly doubtful Trump could even if he wanted to **Freedom of the press squashed** = If anything, I think the media will be bolder and more outspoken than ever in the Trump era, seeing themselves as fighting valiantly against evil **Military buildup** = sure, Trump might do this \*\*Registration of Muslims, \*\*like how Jews had to wear gold stars = Highly doubtful but at least somewhat plausible **Invoke feelings of jingoism, nationalism and xenophobia** = Sure, this is entirely plausible under a Trump presidency [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-this-is-what-it-looks-like-before-the-war/772407.md?page=9)