# So, today we talked to a recruiter... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 3, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134 "2012-07-03T19:44:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/41 "2012-07-05T11:22:02Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Your son wants to be a pilot, right? Did you ask if he can be a pilot without a college degree? Also, even if there is a route to being a pilot without a degree, how many such pilots get through such a route? And, if he does indeed want to be a pilot, get him to consider what will he be interested in doing if he doesn’t for some reason get to be one. The AF has a huge number of people who are not pilots, as well as people who are qualified pilots but who serve in a different capacity. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/42 "2012-07-05T11:54:58Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > There are dangerous jobs in the Coast Guard. Going after drug dealers in the Caribbean. Search and rescue in the North Sea. Plus the CG rescue helicopters are _not_ safe, IMO. I know a lot more about this due to my line of work, and that’s all I’m gonna say. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/43 "2012-07-05T12:13:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I think “pilots must be officers” is pretty much universal, but “officers must be college graduates” isn’t. I’d guess that came about due to the U.S.'s service academies, which double as officer training programs and accredited universities. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/44 "2012-07-05T12:32:54Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Yeah, my parents wouldn’t sign my paperwork to get into the Army. They would only let me go into the military if I went Air Force. So I did. > > I was a helicopter gunner with over 60 flights. > > As I was freezing my balls off in Iraq on Christmas Eve I thought to myself, “yeah, I sure showed them.” My maid’s son joined the Army. She was terrified for him and was delighted when his job speciality came in.Communications. Specifically portable radio operator. I did not have the heart to tell her. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/45 "2012-07-05T15:07:34Z")
> [@Lucretia](#): > > I first got into a uniform in 1986, and are ya sure, not for anything? Not your legs, or arms, or any combination of those plus your genitals? How about your face, or maybe the ability to shit in something other than a bag hanging off your belly? Because I see kids all day, every day that would happily trade their uniforms to get those back. What you are saying is fair, but that can happen to anyone, anywhere. A friend of mine died in my arms after she was hit crossing the street. I realize that wearing the uniform carries risk, but I am proud to do it. Do I **want** to die, or lose my legs or arms? No, of course not, but do I want to work doing something I feel is important? Yes, I do. The risks need to be understood, but putting on a uniform doesn’t automatically mean you are going to be torn apart, any more than not putting one on means you are safe - it’s just a greater risk. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/46 "2012-07-05T15:41:45Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I’d guess that came about due to the U.S.'s service academies, which double as officer training programs and accredited universities. This is just a WAG, but I think it’s a class thing. Officers traditionally come from the “gentleman” class, and since the U.S. has no official gentry, the military defined a gentleman as someone whose parents were rich enough to send him through college. That way, the lower orders were kept out of the officers’ clubs. That was a long time ago, of course, and I’m sure that by now there are plenty of officers from working class (or lower) backgrounds; still, some traditions remain. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/47 "2012-07-05T15:55:32Z")
> [@oreally](#): > > Few jobs in the Army, Navy or MC do either. The majority of jobs in ALL services are not combat-specific. True. But in the Army there is always the chance of getting pulled from your non-combat job and thrown in the turret of a MRAP. Doesn’t happen as much these days but it has happened. Earlier on when both wars were going on it was more likely to have non-combat MOS’s in combat roles. As far as I know in the AF that is pretty much unheard of. > [@Alessan](#): > > I think “pilots must be officers” is pretty much universal, but “officers must be college graduates” isn’t. Its been that way in the US since right after WWII. In Korea (and less frequently Viet Nam) they were still giving out battlefield commissions but if you wanted to keep your rank you had to go to college and get a degree. Currently in the Army it is possible to get your commission through Officer Candidate School with some college but you have to complete your degree prior to making Captain or you lose it. As I stated before, the majority of Army pilots are warrant officers. They do not need a degree to become a pilot or an officer. > [@RandMcnally](#): > > Yeah, my parents wouldn’t sign my paperwork to get into the Army. They would only let me go into the military if I went Air Force. So I did. > > I was a helicopter gunner with over 60 flights. > > As I was freezing my balls off in Iraq on Christmas Eve I thought to myself, “yeah, I sure showed them.” > Oh, and don’t be surprised if your kid doesn’t get a signing bonus or anything. I don’t think Air Force even does that. Air Force recruiters don’t really even have to work hard; they’re usually turning people away. Hell, the AF is doing whatever it can to get a lot of already enlisted out. Despite being in a war they don’t _need_ people. Just pointing out to others that you must have been under 18. Over 18 and you’re an adult and the parents aren’t part of the decision. All of the services are drawing down. The attitude of “If all else fails I’ll join the military” isn’t quite valid any more. Things change. A few years ago when they were building up it was easy to get in. The standards were relaxed. Now with the economy still crappy and the need for troops less, they can be picky. Standards are high and bonuses have dried up. For a while there I heard the Army recruiter’s quota got lowered to zero. Not sure what it is now. > [@AK84](#): > > My maid’s son joined the Army. She was terrified for him and was delighted when his job speciality came in.Communications. Specifically portable radio operator. I did not have the heart to tell her. From your background I’m not sure which Army you are talking about. Although SOPs change from unit to unit, for the most part in the US Army grunts carry their own radios. The commo guy in the unit is most likely the one who runs around making sure their equipment is up prior to a mission. Its possible he could be in harms way but a lot less likely than a lot of other jobs. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/48 "2012-07-05T18:27:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Just pointing out to others that you must have been under 18. Over 18 and you’re an adult and the parents aren’t part of the decision. > > All of the services are drawing down. The attitude of “If all else fails I’ll join the military” isn’t quite valid any more. Things change. A few years ago when they were building up it was easy to get in. The standards were relaxed. Now with the economy still crappy and the need for troops less, they can be picky. Standards are high and bonuses have dried up. For a while there I heard the Army recruiter’s quota got lowered to zero. Not sure what it is now. That’s correct, I should have made it clearer. I joined the military in March, 04. I didn’t turn 18 until the end of August. When I went in my AF recruiter had a quota of two (2) people. And we all went to him. Funny story, I went to MEPS (the inprocessing for the military. That’s where you do your physical, get your job, etc) with a guy who ended up being disqualified due to some eye problem. Wasn’t completely disqualifying, he just had to go and get a waiver from a doctor. From when he got sent back to the time he got his waiver his band got signed to a record label. He still wanted to join. The recruiter wouldn’t let him. He was like, “Dude, you can always join later. Try this band thing first.” ---
**Author:** ![phall0106](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phall0106/32/5934_2.png) [@phall0106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phall0106)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/49 "2012-07-05T21:29:29Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > That’s correct, I should have made it clearer. I joined the military in March, 04. I didn’t turn 18 until the end of August. > > When I went in my AF recruiter had a quota of two (2) people. And we all went to him. > > Funny story, I went to MEPS (the inprocessing for the military. That’s where you do your physical, get your job, etc) with a guy who ended up being disqualified due to some eye problem. Wasn’t completely disqualifying, he just had to go and get a waiver from a doctor. From when he got sent back to the time he got his waiver his band got signed to a record label. > > He still wanted to join. > > The recruiter wouldn’t let him. He was like, “Dude, you can always join later. Try this band thing first.” Well, I’m pretty sure Hallboy isn’t going to get a record label… ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/50 "2012-07-05T21:55:46Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > Since he graduated he hasn’t really had any focus or plans, he seems depressed, aimless. I hope he’ll find something that engages him soon. > > I still think going into the military now is a scary and dangerous thing, but in retrospect I think he would have made a great Marine. Kudos to you for being brave enough to listen with an open mind. It’s not like it’s too late to join. ---
**Author:** ![phall0106](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phall0106/32/5934_2.png) [@phall0106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phall0106)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/51 "2012-07-05T22:36:35Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > It’s not like it’s too late to join. That’s what I was thinking, too. Unless, he’s managed to mess up his chances, which would be anything as simple as getting a tattoo on his forearm or the back of his neck. (Yep, the AF does not allow you to apply if you have a showing tattoo.) Or his credit is shot because he’s been unemployed and was late too many times making his car payment (ditto). Or, he’s gained too much weight and isn’t in the same shape he was at 18 and can’t pass the physical anymore. I was surprised at how “picky” it’s become to get into the AF. Long gone are the days when they’d take just anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/52 "2012-07-05T23:13:52Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > When my son was in high school he decided that he wanted to enlist in the Marines after graduation and I, as his mother, put the big kibosh on that idea. I was thinking there’s no way I’m going to let my baby…nation at war…blah blah, I’m sure you’ve had those fears too. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > It’s not like it’s too late to join. Maybe the country we were at war with was North Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/53 "2012-07-05T23:48:08Z")
> [@phall0106](#): > > That’s what I was thinking, too. Unless, he’s managed to mess up his chances, which would be anything as simple as getting a tattoo on his forearm or the back of his neck. (Yep, the AF does not allow you to apply if you have a showing tattoo.) Or his credit is shot because he’s been unemployed and was late too many times making his car payment (ditto). Or, he’s gained too much weight and isn’t in the same shape he was at 18 and can’t pass the physical anymore. > > I was surprised at how “picky” it’s become to get into the AF. Long gone are the days when they’d take just anyone. All of them are picky right now. Read [this](http://www.army.mil/article/77210/Army_drawdown_forces_tightening_of_retention_standards/) from a couple months ago. They are currently kicking out a lot of dead wood. Even still they need new blood. You always need privates. But they can afford to be more picky. Less need for troops, large number of people wanting in because of the economy. One thing a lot of people don’t understand, there isn’t one standard. They adjust recruiting standards monthly. Bonuses come and go. Quotas change. Different jobs become more desirable. Its a constant adjustment depending on end strength and attrition. ---
**Author:** ![stolatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@stolatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolatt)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/54 "2012-07-06T11:30:40Z")
My son wanted to enlist in the Army or Marines and I met with a couple of recruiters somewhere in the middle of his senior year. To say I was not receptive to the idea would be an understatement. I suppose I could have chalked it up to being his decision, but it’s only that simple if he comes home unscathed. If he came home with a combo of a missing limb and PTSD, who picks up the pieces? Dear old mom and dad. I’ve heard many stories about vets having to fight for decent medical care and any other benefits they are promised. Walter Reed was going through yet another round of bad PR regarding their care and there was some really heavy fighting going on in Iraq. We don’t take care of our vets and I wasn’t willing to sign for him early. Told him that if he wanted to make such a huge decision, he’ll have to be able to sign on his own. At that time, we discovered he had a medical condition that required daily meds. The Army and the Marines wouldn’t take him. Obviously, they couldn’t guarantee that they could get meds to him out in the field, so he was declined. Which makes good sense, but it left me wondering how many applicants get declined for needing daily meds. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/55 "2012-07-06T11:52:15Z")
> [@stolatt](#): > > My son wanted to enlist in the Army or Marines and I met with a couple of recruiters somewhere in the middle of his senior year. To say I was not receptive to the idea would be an understatement. I suppose I could have chalked it up to being his decision, but it’s only that simple if he comes home unscathed. If he came home with a combo of a missing limb and PTSD, who picks up the pieces? Dear old mom and dad. > > I’ve heard many stories about vets having to fight for decent medical care and any other benefits they are promised. Walter Reed was going through yet another round of bad PR regarding their care and there was some really heavy fighting going on in Iraq. We don’t take care of our vets and I wasn’t willing to sign for him early. Told him that if he wanted to make such a huge decision, he’ll have to be able to sign on his own. > > At that time, we discovered he had a medical condition that required daily meds. The Army and the Marines wouldn’t take him. Obviously, they couldn’t guarantee that they could get meds to him out in the field, so he was declined. Which makes good sense, but it left me wondering how many applicants get declined for needing daily meds. Applicants get turned down for a lot of medical reasons. Medical reasons that would be no problem to handle when they are in and would be no problem if it came up after they enlisted. I have never been a recruiter but I have heard plenty of their stories. (Speaking of which, I haven’t seen SSG Schwartz post here in a while) Mostly I hear that more than half of those they bring to MEPS get turned away. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/56 "2012-07-06T11:56:31Z")
> [@stolatt](#): > > At that time, we discovered he had a medical condition that required daily meds. The Army and the Marines wouldn’t take him. Obviously, they couldn’t guarantee that they could get meds to him out in the field, so he was declined. Which makes good sense, but it left me wondering how many applicants get declined for needing daily meds. We had a thread from a recruiter talking about a girl (one of a pair of twins) he’d had to reject for having, iirc, psoriasis. Not the kind of stuff where not getting your meds is life or death, but still, she was out. I have no idea what kind of meds she was on, but my former coworker the Troll Warrior needs to lather heavily in Nivea when stressed and nothing at all most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/57 "2012-07-06T12:20:16Z")
I have seen people turned away for having too much acne. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/58 "2012-07-06T15:41:35Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > When my son was in high school he decided that he wanted to enlist in the Marines after graduation and I, as his mother, put the big kibosh on that idea. I was thinking there’s no way I’m going to let my baby…nation at war…blah blah, I’m sure you’ve had those fears too. > > Looking back I can see that I should have at least really talked to him about it rather than shutting him down. I come from generations of military men, and I’m proud of them all, but my fear wouldn’t let me listen. Since he graduated he hasn’t really had any focus or plans, he seems depressed, aimless. I hope he’ll find something that engages him soon. > > I still think going into the military now is a scary and dangerous thing, but in retrospect I think he would have made a great Marine. Kudos to you for being brave enough to listen with an open mind. > [@Erdosain](#): > > Maybe the country we were at war with was North Vietnam. Then I don’t think there is much chance of him finding something _soon_ if he hasn’t found anything in the last four decades. ---
**Author:** ![oreally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ab992/32.png) [@oreally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oreally)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/59 "2012-07-06T16:15:24Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Of course it is. No, sorry, it isn’t. By definition in the AF and I’m reasonably sure the other services (warrant officers being the exception), you cannot be a pilot unless you are an officer. It has nothing to do with how badly they do or don’t need people. Been that way for quite a long time. > [@Nava](#): > > The AF has a huge number of people who are not pilots, Most in fact are not. Cracked me up every time I said I was AF: “oh are you a pilot?” > [@Loach](#): > > As I stated before, the majority of Army pilots are warrant officers. They do not need a degree to become a pilot or an officer. You do need a degree to become an officer, but not a warrant officer, although my impression is that few WOs are w/o a degree either. > [@phall0106](#): > > I was surprised at how “picky” it’s become to get into the AF. Long gone are the days when they’d take just anyone. Yep. And they will nail you to a tree or even boot you out if you so much as blink the wrong way, it seems. That “family” feeling of the military is doing a fast fade. They’re more like corporations who view you as a disposable resource. Sad. > [@stolatt](#): > > I’ve heard many stories about vets having to fight for decent medical care and any other benefits they are promised. There are exceptions but in my long career I’m quite convinced “decent military medical care” is an oxymoron. I wouldn’t trust most of them to put a band-aid on my finger. They’re good at giving out Motrin though. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134/60 "2012-07-06T16:27:38Z")
> [@oreally](#): > > You do need a degree to become an officer, but not a warrant officer, although my impression is that few WOs are w/o a degree either. In the Army your impression would be wrong. As a pilot its possible to go high school to flight school. Most are soldiers who qualify and put in a flight packet. For the other Army branches, each has their own set of criteria for warrants. Some wanted Associate Degrees in lieu of certain Army schools but I don’t think it was a requirement. I know of no Army branch that requires a 4 year degree to be a WO. I could be wrong, I don’t deal with all of them. Traditionally warrants were crusty NCOs who became warrants in order to use their knowledge with a little more authority. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-today-we-talked-to-a-recruiter/627134.md?page=4)