# So..um...what if the Large Hadron Collider does create a tiny black hole **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 30, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231 "2009-08-30T04:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/1 "2009-08-30T04:16:34Z")
I know it is extremely implausable. But lets say for arguments sake the LHC does create a tiny stable black hole. What would happen? How long until it gets big enough to cause a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/2 "2009-08-30T04:19:15Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I know it is extremely implausable. But lets say for arguments sake the LHC does create a tiny stable black hole. What would happen? How long until it gets big enough to cause a problem? So long as you realize this is in the same category as “what if the LHC creates tiny, vicious leprechauns” … The tiny black hole _never_ becomes a problem. Black holes aren’t magic, and the tiny ones aren’t even stable indefinitely. This thing would simply dissolve long, long, long before it could possibly absorb enough matter to even be remotely _detectable_, let alone dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/3 "2009-08-30T04:37:18Z")
We gain volumes of knowlege. I suppose both scientifically and philosofically. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/4 "2009-08-30T04:59:53Z")
When exactly is the LHC actually going to do its thing, anyway? It’s been on hold for so long now, it’s become the Duke Nukem Forever of science experiments. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/5 "2009-08-30T05:20:40Z")
LHC does its thing when LHC want to. No one tell LHC what to do. LHC ANGRY! ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f08c70/32.png) [@Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Brother_Walker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/6 "2009-08-30T05:27:08Z")
It’s the end of the world! Party like it’s 2009! Love the one you’re with! If it feels good, do it! Seriously, you’ll have limited time. Don’t worry about saving your car. Enjoy your last moments. Unless, of course, it doesn’t happen. Then you should go back to work. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/7 "2009-08-30T05:43:59Z")
I’ll just note that this is the 843rd or so thread on this topic. I think more people have died to the LHC black hole than the 1920s style death ray by this time. ---
**Author:** ![ajb867](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@ajb867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajb867)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/8 "2009-08-30T06:20:08Z")
Things got serious after the Liquid Helium Attack. I’m sorry… “Leak” ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/9 "2009-08-30T07:30:14Z")
Black Mesa and Aperture Laboratories got in a bidding war on who gets the majority of machine time, so the experiments are on hold until talks are completed. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/10 "2009-08-30T07:49:47Z")
> [@EvilTOJ](#): > > Black Mesa and Aperture Laboratories got in a bidding war on who gets the majority of machine time, so the experiments are on hold until talks are completed. And in the meantime, who gets time with your imaginary rubber girl/boy friend? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/11 "2009-08-30T08:56:06Z")
If a black hole is created then The European Union will name it and give it a Nobel Price in a category to be announced at a later date. The US response will be to declare war on it and siphon the national debt directly to it in an attempt to cut out the middleman. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Vorlon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@The\_Vorlon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Vorlon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/12 "2009-08-30T12:16:26Z")
It will be ‘slightly’ pregnant. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/13 "2009-08-30T13:56:40Z")
Most of the other threads seemed to deal with the liklihood of this occuring. > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > The tiny black hole _never_ becomes a problem. Black holes aren’t magic, and the tiny ones aren’t even stable indefinitely. This thing would simply dissolve long, long, long before it could possibly absorb enough matter to even be remotely _detectable_, let alone dangerous. Let me rephrase the OP. I want to create a black hole just big enough to be dangerous. Never mind what I need it for. That’s my business and I’ll thank you to stay out of my personal affairs. I just want to know what will happen once I create it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/14 "2009-08-30T15:43:45Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Let me rephrase the OP. I want to create a black hole just big enough to be dangerous. Never mind what I need it for. That’s my business and I’ll thank you to stay out of my personal affairs. > > I just want to know what will happen once I create it. Where are you getting the initial mass, kiddo? Let’s say I can to turn you into a black hole. So what? You die horribly, become a singularity, and there’s a sucking sound as the air fills in the space you were in. But it has no effect on me standing right next to you because while it might be a black hole it had the same mass as you initially did. So the msmith537 black hole drops to the floor and probably makes its way though the cracks in the floor on its way the center of the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/15 "2009-08-30T17:16:18Z")
Alright, I have a less paranoid question- how much mass would a black hole need to be stable if it were in the center of the Earth, presumably sucking up mass at a rate roughly equivalent to the rate at which it loses mass from Hawking radiation? ---
**Author:** ![parthenokinesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@parthenokinesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parthenokinesis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/16 "2009-08-30T17:17:14Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Where are you getting the initial mass, kiddo? > > Let’s say I can to turn you into a black hole. So what? You die horribly, become a singularity, and there’s a sucking sound as the air fills in the space you were in. > > But it has no effect on me standing right next to you because while it might be a black hole it had the same mass as you initially did. So the msmith537 black hole drops to the floor and probably makes its way though the cracks in the floor on its way the center of the Earth. So Black hole msmith537 doesn’t have enough gravitational force to create any kind of event horizion? Will the stray hydrogen atom that comes in direct contact just harmlessly bounce off, or does the stable, but miniature black hole have the ability to feed itself? What if it were a little bigger? Say I put msmith537 on one end of the super collider and Mr. Miskatonic at the other end and run them into each other a near light speed, is the then created Black hole Mr Smithatonic537 stable and massive enough to start sucking in some air molecules? What if you were both wearing heavy woolen coats? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/17 "2009-08-30T18:57:59Z")
> [@parthenokinesis](#): > > So Black hole msmith537 doesn’t have enough gravitational force to create any kind of event horizion? Will the stray hydrogen atom that comes in direct contact just harmlessly bounce off, or does the stable, but miniature black hole have the ability to feed itself? What if it were a little bigger? Say I put msmith537 on one end of the super collider and Mr. Miskatonic at the other end and run them into each other a near light speed, is the then created Black hole Mr Smithatonic537 stable and massive enough to start sucking in some air molecules? What if you were both wearing heavy woolen coats? Black hole msmith creates exactly the same gravitational force that msmith did before he was compressed into a black hole. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/18 "2009-08-30T19:26:43Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Alright, I have a less paranoid question- how much mass would a black hole need to be stable if it were in the center of the Earth, presumably sucking up mass at a rate roughly equivalent to the rate at which it loses mass from Hawking radiation? I don’t know exactly ( and wasn’t able to google a good answer ), but quite a bit more massive than a person much less a few elementary particles. More like a mountain’s worth of mass, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/19 "2009-08-30T21:08:38Z")
My half assed understanding. Lets assume you create one in the first place. Lets also assume the detailed physics are NOT quite right and the thing DOES NOT evaporate once formed. It will be SOO small (because its mass is so small) that it can barely consume enough matter to grow at an appreciable rate. My WAG is that earth is safe for millions if not billions of years and maybe even longer than that. ---
**Author:** ![parthenokinesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@parthenokinesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parthenokinesis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231/20 "2009-08-30T22:06:11Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Black hole msmith creates exactly the same gravitational force that msmith did before he was compressed into a black hole. You know this doesn’t actually address any of my questions? I had this much coming in. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I don’t know exactly ( and wasn’t able to google a good answer ), but quite a bit more massive than a person much less a few elementary particles. More like a mountain’s worth of mass, perhaps. This does. So what you’re saying is if i shoved msmith537, Mr. Miskatonic, Rysto, and Der Trihs into a ford Focus and put that at one end of of my backyard accelerator, and put Mt. McKinley in the other and shot them towards each other at near light speed, the subsequent black hole (which i will not try and name, oh heck Black Hole msmistorihsley) _might_ be massive enough to cause problems? Hardly seems worth the effort. How about the strange particle matter conversion concern? If I converted msmith537 into strange matter would that be enough to set of a chain reaction, re-organizing all matter on the planet? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-um-what-if-the-large-hadron-collider-does-create-a-tiny-black-hole/508231.md?page=2)