# So Wal-Mart sucks? I pit you if you think this. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 30, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301 "2004-11-30T08:00:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/21 "2004-11-30T09:16:15Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > You forgot to notice there were only two posts that included shipping in the prices quoted. **threemae** needs more than that to get it through the skull. Dumbass. Click on the Wal-Mart link that says, “See estimated arrival date and shipping cost” What does it cost to ship? $107. Compared to $85. $225 (Wal-Mart seems to have lowered their prices)+ 107=332; Wally-World $220 + 85= 305; Froogle’s link And really, why are you getting all personal now. You’re hurting my feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Ooner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c67d28/32.png) [@Ooner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ooner)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/22 "2004-11-30T09:20:21Z")
> [@lavenderlemon](#): > > Wal Mart sucks because they pay workers low wages. > > [The average worker makes only $9.98 an hour.](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/secrets/stats.html) > > And then they turn around and pay the CEO [millions.](http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2004/national-reporting/works/walmart1.html) Yeah, CEOs of multi-billion dollar giant multinational corporations should have a low salary cap. Say $25/hr or so, right? Because he isn’t much more important than the kid bagging groceries. You can accuse Walmart of underpaying employees all you want but the CEO’s salary has no bearing on whether they are an ethical company or not. ---
**Author:** ![biddee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@biddee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biddee)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/23 "2004-11-30T09:22:12Z")
> [@The\_Llama](#): > > $220 + $85 for freight charge, and when you go to check out the total is $304 without calculating shipping charges yet. I was almost upset someone found it cheaper! > > no, no I don’t compete over stupid things… why do you ask? I thought freight was the same as shipping. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Llama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@The\_Llama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Llama)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/24 "2004-11-30T09:22:15Z")
I just put in a fake name to check… the $85 is the total shipping cost if you use UPS ground. So far the cheapest. Damn you! Now I’ll be scouring the internet! ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/25 "2004-11-30T09:23:19Z")
Whoa, this is weird. Now, when I click on the Wal-Mart link it says $250+ shipping. [http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product\_id=3342142&cat=103257&type=1&dept=4171&path=0%3A4171%3A103117%3A103257&xsell=1634889](http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3342142&cat=103257&type=1&dept=4171&path=0%3A4171%3A103117%3A103257&xsell=1634889) I guess it’s just like winning the lottery or something, ---
**Author:** ![The\_Llama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@The\_Llama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Llama)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/26 "2004-11-30T09:23:22Z")
> [@biddee](#): > > I thought freight was the same as shipping. Am I wrong? It’s a really heavy item, so some places were charging a freight, or handling charge on top of shipping… but not the case for the above place. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/27 "2004-11-30T09:32:28Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Instead of bitching about Wal-Mart running “mom-and-pop” stores out of business, how about boycotting companies that allow themselves to be bullied by Wal-Mart instead of finding other outlets to sell thier wares? > > I’m still wondering why I don’t ever see rants against Target and thier business practices. Because the companies who are more or less required to sell at Walmart are as victimized as the consumers who have nowhere else to buy things. [Their hourly wage is 20%-30% higher than Walmart’s.](http://www.dsausa.org/lowwage/walmart/why_walmart.html), because they allow their workers to [unionize](http://www.targetunion.com). Target also does not have such blatant labor violations. I’ve never heard of a Target worker forced to work off the clock, and there’s no rampant sexism when it comes to hiring managers. Also, they stay out of communities where they’re not wanted. In addition, they’ve never donehttp://www.ufcw324.org/3walmartstoriespage.html#key. AFAIK, Target is an ethical business. I’m sure they’ve done a few sleazy things, being a giant chain store and all, but I still think it’s miles ahead of most other “big-box” department stores. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/28 "2004-11-30T09:32:35Z")
I’ve been inside a Target exactly twice. I couldn’t find what I was looking for and their prices were too high. I agree Wal-Mart should pay their employees more. Until they do, though, why the hell should I shop at Target and spend extra money I can’t afford just to prove an imaginary point? ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/29 "2004-11-30T09:34:13Z")
Bah, messed up the coding on one of those links. And I previewed and everything! [Walmart worker with crushed ankle forced to spend an hour suffering, because he was locked in the store overnight.](http://www.ufcw324.org/3walmartstoriespage.html#key) ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/30 "2004-11-30T09:58:41Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > Bah, messed up the coding on one of those links. And I previewed and everything! > > [Walmart worker with crushed ankle forced to spend an hour suffering, because he was locked in the store overnight.](http://www.ufcw324.org/3walmartstoriespage.html#key) Gracious God almighty!!! I knew it was bad, but… What really burns me up is that so many of these poor workers are the uneducated and possibly illegals, so they don’t know they have any rights, or what rights they do have. I remember they had this one guy cleaning up Xylene that had spilled. Just a rag, no respirator, no protective gear. I was so mad I went straight to the manager. He tried to wiggle out of it by saying all that wasn’t necessary. Shut right up when I started quoting specific passages from the Code of Federal Regulations that deal with worker protection, right to know, etc. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :mad: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Llama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@The\_Llama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Llama)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/31 "2004-11-30T10:04:40Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > I’ve been inside a Target exactly twice. I couldn’t find what I was looking for and their prices were too high. > > I agree Wal-Mart should pay their employees more. Until they do, though, why the hell should I shop at Target and spend extra money I can’t afford just to prove an imaginary point? Well, it’s not imaginary. It goes along the lines of why should you vote when whomever wins/loses by 1 million votes. That’s not to say I wouldn’t take the lower price. But I still recognize that the ONLY way to hurt a business is to not shop there, and encourage others to do the same. (Warning, extremely far fetched example to follow) If wal-mart was killing a baby for every 1000 cd’s sold, do you really think that not shopping there would only be proving an imaginary point? And do you think you’d really have much trouble boycotting them to the point that you could put them under, or at the very least change this one practice? (Yes, I know they’d be jailed/whatever first, but I can’t think of something sufficiently heinous but borderline legal/get-away-able-with) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/32 "2004-11-30T10:12:10Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > Target also does not have such blatant labor violations. I’ve never heard of a Target worker forced to work off the clock, and there’s no rampant sexism when it comes to hiring managers. Also, they stay out of communities where they’re not wanted. If the violations were so blatant, they surely would have been taken care of by now. I’m sure the ACLU wouldn’t allow such obvious practices to occur. Forced to work off the clock? Well, if someone is dumb enough to accept this, maybe they should be happy _anyone_ would hire them. The very idea of someone asking me to work for free makes me want to go punch someone right now. And rampant sexism. Where is the trusty ACLU to help with this scourge? I can’t cite anything, but I seem to recall some sort of law barring this practice. If it’s so obvious it should be taken care of after the first lawsuit. Speaking of staying out of communities where an entity is not wanted, let’s get back to the ACLU. Duluth, MN kinda liked it’s 10 Commandments monument. But the ACLU made sure the “will of the People” was thwarted with a suit. I guess the protection of people hinges on whether or not a suit can bring victory. Piss on everyone else. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/33 "2004-11-30T10:17:22Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Gracious God almighty!!! > > I knew it was bad, but… > > What really burns me up is that so many of these poor workers are the uneducated and possibly illegals, so they don’t know they have any rights, or what rights they do have. > > I remember they had this one guy cleaning up Xylene that had spilled. Just a rag, no respirator, no protective gear. > > I was so mad I went straight to the manager. He tried to wiggle out of it by saying all that wasn’t necessary. Shut right up when I started quoting specific passages from the Code of Federal Regulations that deal with worker protection, right to know, etc. > > Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :mad: OK, let’s try another tack based on this post. (Not you personally **Canvas** ) but a sentiment I see often. Like this thread and so many others like it,\*\* _it’s something that local managers do running the store._\*\* Got that? I’ve never heard of these horror stories coming out of our local stores. Whatever cites you want to give, they aren’t always corporate policy. Sometimes you just have an asshole or two in your own town that pulls this shit. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/34 "2004-11-30T10:20:56Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Forced to work off the clock? Well, if someone is dumb enough to accept this, maybe they should be happy _anyone_ would hire them. The McDonald’s I worked at as a teenager was really bad about that **and** child labor violations. Sure, I put up with it. I was young and stupid. For all the talk that today’s teenagers are all rotten, some can be easily intimidated. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/35 "2004-11-30T10:22:51Z")
One of the bad effects of Wal-Mart, GE and other corporations that have the power to dictate prices to suppliers, is the pressure they apply to their vendors. They tell a vendor that they expect them to cut prices by X% a year, or they will buy from someone else. Maybe the vendor can do this for a while by reducing profit margins and becoming more efficient. They eventually get to the point where they have cut all the fat out of their production processes, and their choices are limited to moving production off-shore, where labor and regulatory costs are smaller. In the process of saving a few nickels on the price of a product, they destroy American jobs, support third-world sweat shops, and create health and environmental problems in other countries. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/36 "2004-11-30T10:50:24Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > OK, let’s try another tack based on this post. (Not you personally **Canvas** ) but a sentiment I see often. > > Like this thread and so many others like it,\*\* _it’s something that local managers do running the store._\*\* > > Got that? I’ve never heard of these horror stories coming out of our local stores. > > Whatever cites you want to give, they aren’t always corporate policy. Sometimes you just have an asshole or two in your own town that pulls this shit. Well, that’s likely true as well. The horror story of the young man cleanng up Xylene happened right in front of me. And that IS a horror story IMHO. Damn stuff’ll melt your brain (figuratively speaking) and fix your baby making abilities but good (yeah, after repeated exposure, but leaning over a 3 foot pool of the stuff breathing in those lovely fumes…). Another time, an earsplitting screech of some malfunctioning alarm was going off, and instead of shutting down the damn store until they could get the managers or IT guy to fix it, they made the clerks just keep on working in it. Umm Hello? OSHA? Exposure limits for noise pollution? (yes, there IS a decibal limit to which workers can be exposed, and over what period of time). I left the store, but after asking one young man how long it had been going off. He said "since I got here four hours ago. :eek: Wrote them a scathing letter on that one too. Although I’m sure they just ignored it. But the article itself named a figure of 10% for the locking in of employees I have never worked there, so other than seeing incidents form a customer’s viewpoint, I don’t know what it’s like on a day to day basis, but I remember employees in a small town in TX telling me that they had to work overtime wtihout overtime pay, and that they didn’t get holiday pay. I’ve long boycotted Walmart as much as possible, just because of the treatment of the employees by the managers in our local stores, and that was just for stuff like the xylene incident, and yelling at them in front of customers. The article also sounded as if this sort of thing was winked at, and the manager Ms. Williams who was being interviewed sounded to me as if she was doing and awful lot of spindoctoring. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/37 "2004-11-30T12:15:01Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > If the violations were so blatant, they surely would have been taken care of by now. I’m sure the ACLU wouldn’t allow such obvious practices to occur. > > Forced to work off the clock? Well, if someone is dumb enough to accept this, maybe they should be happy _anyone_ would hire them. The very idea of someone asking me to work for free makes me want to go punch someone right now. And rampant sexism. Where is the trusty ACLU to help with this scourge? I can’t cite anything, but I seem to recall some sort of law barring this practice. If it’s so obvious it should be taken care of after the first lawsuit. > > Speaking of staying out of communities where an entity is not wanted, let’s get back to the ACLU. Duluth, MN kinda liked it’s 10 Commandments monument. But the ACLU made sure the “will of the People” was thwarted with a suit. > > I guess the protection of people hinges on whether or not a suit can bring victory. Piss on everyone else. :rolleyes: The ACLU is not a labor union. They deal with Constitutional issues, not labor. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/38 "2004-11-30T12:20:39Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > If the violations were so blatant, they surely would have been taken care of by now. I’m sure the ACLU wouldn’t allow such obvious practices to occur. > > Forced to work off the clock? Well, if someone is dumb enough to accept this, maybe they should be happy _anyone_ would hire them. The very idea of someone asking me to work for free makes me want to go punch someone right now. And rampant sexism. Where is the trusty ACLU to help with this scourge? I can’t cite anything, but I seem to recall some sort of law barring this practice. If it’s so obvious it should be taken care of after the first lawsuit. > > Speaking of staying out of communities where an entity is not wanted, let’s get back to the ACLU. Duluth, MN kinda liked it’s 10 Commandments monument. But the ACLU made sure the “will of the People” was thwarted with a suit. > > I guess the protection of people hinges on whether or not a suit can bring victory. Piss on everyone else. :rolleyes: Your defense of Wal Mart fell to shit, so now you want to attack or impugn the ACLU? How is this at all related? Is the ACLU taking the role of OSHA now? Or do you just completely lack any comprehension as to what the role of the ACLU is, kind of like your lack of comprehension about Wal Mart and low prices? ---
**Author:** ![MrFantsyPants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MrFantsyPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrFantsyPants)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/39 "2004-11-30T12:21:47Z")
Join us next week, when Duffer will pit people who think child labour is bad because without it, his poor teacher friend would have to pay $3 more for sneakers. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/40 "2004-11-30T12:23:26Z")
> [@MrFantsyPants](#): > > Join us next week, when Duffer will pit people who think child labour is bad because without it, his poor teacher friend would have to pay $3 more for sneakers. I’m outraged already. Will Nobody Stop Thinking of The Children? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301.md?page=3)