# So Wal-Mart sucks? I pit you if you think this. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 30, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301 "2004-11-30T08:00:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/121 "2004-12-01T03:35:32Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > Back to the thread, no offense, but you lost me on the airplane analogy. Boeing would call a mean-ass repo man and get its $100 million plane back. > > I don’t disagree with you that Wal[sub]\*[/sub]Mart is bad for communities. But I think the decision should be left up to the consumer. You want to change things? Reach out to them. Well, you cannot call up a repo-man for lost wages, so employeers are indeed availing themselves, successfully I might add, to the court-system. I don’t want to take away consumer choice, and yes, I do think that Wal-Mart should be available to those that choose to shop there. But there are things about the chain that must change. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Llama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@The\_Llama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Llama)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/122 "2004-12-01T03:40:02Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Guess what? They do. Wal-Mart has enormous employee turn-over and churn. Just to keep it fair, the article from the start of this thread said that their turnover was @ 44% which is right on par with all other retailers. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/123 "2004-12-01T03:40:55Z")
> [@Bruce\_Daddy](#): > > Complain all you want, you’re not being forced to work there. > No, they should leave, just like I advocate if you feel you are being treated poorly by your employer. How about if they complain as an impetus to change? If enough of the employees that get treated this way talk amongst themselves and to others, and find out more of what their rights are, they can then begin to fight it and force changes. So, if employees are not being paid overtime, and they just sucked it up or left, how would it ever get changed? Who would bring it to the attention of the authorities? But…if the employees are disgruntled and bitching about no overtime or holiday pay, and those on the listening end are replying “say WHAT??? Ummmm guess you don’t know this, but thath’s illegal, they can’t lock you in, or threaten you, or not pay you for working, or not pay overtime”. Well, DUH that’s what the complaining is FOR. It’s a GOOD thing that folks are bitching about such a ridiculous misuse of the work force. The more they get bitched at and about, the fewer folks will be going there to work in the first place. So instead, after hearing the complaints from friends or acquaintances who have bitched about their less than ethical or legal treatment of employees, more people WILL work at your list of “other” acceptable minimum wage retail stores. Communication is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/124 "2004-12-01T03:49:42Z")
Want to see how Walmart works? Read this… > **[The Wal-Mart You Don’t Know](https://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know)** > > The giant retailer’s low prices often come with a high cost. Wal-Mart’s relentless pressure can crush the companies it does business with and force them to send jobs overseas. Are we shopping our way straight to the unemployment line? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/125 "2004-12-01T04:10:31Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Unfortunately, that’s not how CPS works and it wouldn’t have been productive to do so. > > Sam It’s NOT? 😕 Sorry, I’m not disputing that you know how your local agencies respond, but this just floors me. They wouldn’t take action for that sort of abuse? Hitting a toddler on the mouth? Wow. Ours show up PDQ if you just see a kid under a certain age left alone in a vehicle, they’d be DAMN sure to take action on a mouth slapping harpy. Damn. sorry end hijack ---
**Author:** ![The\_Llama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@The\_Llama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Llama)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/126 "2004-12-01T04:16:14Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Want to see how Walmart works? > > Read this… > > [The Wal-Mart You Don’t Know](http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html) I don’t get it, the whole first half of that article gives this big build up about Wal-Mart killing Vlasic because of what we’ve been discussing, and then when they talk about Vlasic needing to file for bankruptcy they throw in this > [@](#): > > Not long after that, in January 2001, Vlasic filed for bankruptcy–although the gallon jar of pickles, everyone agrees, wasn’t a critical factor. Am I missing something? If not that, than why did they file? And why have we believed all this time that Wal-Mart was the cause? ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/127 "2004-12-01T04:19:21Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Okay **duff-duff** , you got it. > > **duffer** , if you’re going to offer a challange like that, you should really research the topic a bit yourself first. First, I would expect better name-calling from you. The 6 cites I was calling for was for employees being locked into stores overnight. Sorry for the confusion. Do they force unpaid overtime? Obviously it happens. But I have little sympathy for anyone that tolerates it. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/128 "2004-12-01T04:34:43Z")
> [@The\_Llama](#): > > I don’t get it, the whole first half of that article gives this big build up about Wal-Mart killing Vlasic because of what we’ve been discussing, and then when they talk about Vlasic needing to file for bankruptcy they throw in this > > Am I missing something? If not that, than why did they file? And why have we believed all this time that Wal-Mart was the cause? Would you really want to take a multi billion dollar company’s legal team on? Ever heard of the term…CYA? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/129 "2004-12-01T04:36:03Z")
Just find the same news story on 6 different news sites. Voila 6 cites. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Llama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@The\_Llama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Llama)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/130 "2004-12-01T04:37:59Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Would you really want to take a multi billion dollar company’s legal team on? > > Ever heard of the term…CYA? What the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/131 "2004-12-01T04:38:52Z")
Not to continue this hijack, but… > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > It’s NOT? 😕 No. > [@](#): > > Sorry, I’m not disputing that you know how your local agencies respond, but this just floors me. They wouldn’t take action for that sort of abuse? Hitting a toddler on the mouth? Wow. Ours show up PDQ if you just see a kid under a certain age left alone in a vehicle, they’d be DAMN sure to take action on a mouth slapping harpy. > > Damn. > > sorry end hijack Abuse to you and abuse to me are different than abuse to 40,000,000 different people. Our police have enough on their plates as it is to not be burdened by every do-gooder calling in reports of a mother smacking their child. If I said she “hit” her child, she’d say she barely touched him. It’s even more complicated when we’re talking about crowded stores with Jane Doe suspects that you don’t know and would be forced to follow arounf the store for an hour while the police got their acts together. I guess that’s one of the drawbacks to living in a huge metro area, in a humungous beaurocracy. :shrug: Not my problem or my business anyways. Sam ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/132 "2004-12-01T04:40:05Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Do they force unpaid overtime? Obviously it happens. But I have little sympathy for anyone that tolerates it. 😕 Talk about blaming the victim! Um have those of you forgotten about the culprit? Those actually breaking the law here? How does the fact that they’ve (walmart) found uneducated desparate people to bilk, in any way mitigate their responsibilities here, or in any way make them less evil? And again, as to the “anyone who tolerates it” thing…THAT is what the complaining is useful for, that in communicating to others, (we hope others that can help and get to the bottom of it), is for. And lastly, as many other dopers have pointed out to you, we understand that low prices are attractive. But according to the cites other posters have provided, WM doesn’t really do that either. There were several cites early on that showed at least three other places cheaper than walmart for the same product AND brand name. Same product/super low price…well big WHOOP De Doo if the product is not the same brand, but some piece O crap knock off. One does get what one pays for. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/133 "2004-12-01T04:40:22Z")
> [@The\_Llama](#): > > What the hell are you talking about? You try venturing into what walmart might see as libel land. You have endless bucks? Walmart does. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/134 "2004-12-01T04:46:33Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > First, I would expect better name-calling from you. > > The 6 cites I was calling for was for employees being locked into stores overnight. Sorry for the confusion. Do they force unpaid overtime? Obviously it happens. But I have little sympathy for anyone that tolerates it. Apparently, you don’t have much sympathy for anyone, do you? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/135 "2004-12-01T04:47:40Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Abuse to you and abuse to me are different than abuse to 40,000,000 different people. …If I said she “hit” her child, she’d say she barely touched him. …:shrug: Not my problem or my business anyways. Yes, that’s true, a he said/she said incident, unless an agency person actually saw it happen. As to the “not my problem”? I disagree, but the reasons call for their own thread. (not pitting you, just the circumstances regarding that sorta thought process). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Llama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@The\_Llama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Llama)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/136 "2004-12-01T04:48:19Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > You try venturing into what walmart might see as libel land. > > You have endless bucks? > > Walmart does. Was I supposed to glean the cryptic message above from the cryptic message in your other post? Also, are you attempting to state a fact that you know, or are you just assuming that this fear of lawsuit is the case? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/137 "2004-12-01T04:49:07Z")
> [@lavenderlemon](#): > > Wal Mart sucks because they pay workers low wages. > > [The average worker makes only $9.98 an hour.](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/secrets/stats.html) > > And then they turn around and pay the CEO [millions.](http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2004/national-reporting/works/walmart1.html) > > There’s always a high cost to cheap products and labor. Personally I’d rather pay more for a product from a company that insures workers and provides them with a decent wage. I’d certainly rather do that than get the cheapest price possible and then see my taxes raised to cover an employee’s health insurance and food stamps. > > A company that pays workers a pittance and forces them to rely on the rest of us for basic necessities like health care does indeed suck. $9.98 for unskilled labor is not really bad. [http://www.hhsc.state.tx.us/research/dssi/StateMedianFamilyIncome.html](http://www.hhsc.state.tx.us/research/dssi/StateMedianFamilyIncome.html) The median annual income for 1 household families is about 20k a year in most states, which is what someone earning $9.98 an hour who works 40 hours a week would earn. So their wages definately are not bad at $9.98. Problem is $9.98 is alot higher than they actually pay, they pay around $6.50-9 from what I can tell. Maybe they included managers who make 50k a year in with the stockboys who make $6.50 when they averaged the wages out. [http://www.goiam.org/territories.asp?c=5236](http://www.goiam.org/territories.asp?c=5236) Wal-Mart workers can buy individual coverage for as low as $15.25 every two weeks and family coverage for $66.25, Fogleman said. But those options have a deductible of $1,000, meaning that care is paid for by the employee until that ceiling is reached. Then Wal-Mart covers 80 percent of further costs. Wal-Mart says its average spending on medical benefits per employee is $3,100 per year. That’s less than the industry average — about $4,400 for large retailers — as calculated by Mercer Human Resource Consulting. That is still $3100 a year more than alot of employers pay for healthcare benefits. They also have a 401k plan that I do not know the details of. Overall if you are making $10/hr, getting $3100 a year in medical benefits then you really are not a victim by any means. I would gladly shop at walmart if their average employee got $10/hr and 3k a year in medical benefits, but that is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/138 "2004-12-01T04:49:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Apparently, you don’t have much sympathy for anyone, do you? He’s like all right wingers. He has his. The hell with everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/139 "2004-12-01T04:51:16Z")
> [@lavenderlemon](#): > > Wal Mart sucks because they pay workers low wages. > > [The average worker makes only $9.98 an hour.](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/secrets/stats.html) Oh, no, they pay the average worker almost TWICE the minimum wage ($5.15). The horrors of it all!!! ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301/140 "2004-12-01T04:51:55Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > And **ava** , I’ll be sure to shave my sack before shoving my balls down your throat, you fruitcake. I’d like to apologize now for any time in which I may have implied that Duffer doesn’t comport himself with grace and aplomb. He’s a man of honor who never stoops to insults or childishness, or unnecessary political potshots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wal-mart-sucks-i-pit-you-if-you-think-this/277301.md?page=8)