# So Warren has Native American ancestry, 8 generations ago. Is she a minority? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 15, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990 "2018-10-15T16:26:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/41 "2018-10-16T01:07:04Z")
Warren and educational institutions claims now that they didn’t consider her ‘minority’ status…just repeating something over and over doesn’t make it so. And ‘a long time ago’ doesn’t really work either. In politics people consider all kinds of stuff that happened a long time ago as we see all the time. The question isn’t whether this is a really important issue for the world or whether Trump is a jerk, the answer to those questions obviously being “no” and “yes” respectively. It’s whether this is still a liability for her going beyond safely left leading MA in her political career. It is. Her ‘family story’ wasn’t of unknown Indian heritage up to 10 generations ago. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/42 "2018-10-16T01:07:31Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Who gives a crap? She’s not claiming any tribal membership so while it’s nice that news organizations might actual take the Cherokee Nations phone calls for next week or so, their statement is entirely irrelevant I guess it’s like Disney suing preschools for painting Mickey Mouse on the walls. The price of Intellectual Property (or tribal culture and sovereignty) is eternal vigilance. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/43 "2018-10-16T01:36:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, an honest person wouldn’t pretend that was an actual bet. We clearly have different ideas about what it means to be an honest person. As does Trump (though I’m sure the entire concept is foreign to him). ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/44 "2018-10-16T02:11:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, I’m saying I believe you to be a thru-and-thru partisan. Obama is as the first Democrat I ever voted for. My partisanship, if it can be called that, is apparently quite malleable. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/45 "2018-10-16T02:47:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The “deal” was a hypothetical. It doesn’t exist in any real sense, never did. It’s a figment of your (and **fiveyearlurker** ’s) imagination. Unbelievable.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/46 "2018-10-16T02:52:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There was no bet. This isn’t a hard fact to grasp. [“Trump bet Elizabeth Warren $1M” didn’t actually happen](https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0407/39/1434914331498.png). Well, not a bet but a offer: > **[Trump promised $1 million to charity if Warren proved her Native American...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/15/trump-dared-elizabeth-warren-take-dna-test-prove-her-native-american-ancestry-now-what/?utm_term=.4f841f2f8962)** > > The senator reminded Trump of his $1 million promise, along with the name of a charity she had chosen. _I’m going to get one of those little [DNA testing] kits and in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims she’s of Indian heritage_ … ‚” Trump said. “A_nd we will say, ‘I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian._’“And let’s see what she does,” Trump continued. “I have a feeling she will say no, but we’ll hold that for the debates. Do me a favor. Keep it within this room?_”"_ So, she said yes, and she _is_ part indian, and now he is weaseling. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/47 "2018-10-16T03:11:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, not a bet but a offer: > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/15/trump-dared-elizabeth-warren-take-dna-test-prove-her-native-american-ancestry-now-what/?utm\_term=.4f841f2f8962](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/15/trump-dared-elizabeth-warren-take-dna-test-prove-her-native-american-ancestry-now-what/?utm_term=.4f841f2f8962) > > _I’m going to get one of those little [DNA testing] kits and in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims she’s of Indian heritage_ … ‚” Trump said. “A_nd we will say, ‘I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian._’“And let’s see what she does,” Trump continued. “I have a feeling she will say no, but we’ll hold that for the debates. Do me a favor. Keep it within this room?_”"_ > > So, she said yes, and she _is_ part indian, and now he is weaseling. Which debate between them was the one when she claimed Indian heritage? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/48 "2018-10-16T04:38:38Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Who gives a crap? She’s not claiming any tribal membership so while it’s nice that news organizations might actual take the Cherokee Nations phone calls for next week or so, their statement is entirely irrelevant. I’m sure the Germans aren’t happy about Trump’s dad coming from there but that’s too bad. They don’t accept her so of course their opinion is irrelvant. > [@bobot](#): > > Our despicable president has been calling her Pocahontas. Do you know if they have any thoughts about that? I doubt they would considering that Pocahontas was Powhatan. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/49 "2018-10-16T04:58:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Just imagine a person with a black ancestor, 8 generations ago claiming black heritage. “Claiming”? Depending partly on how they happen to look, lots of Americans would be offended if that person dared not delineate their African-American ancestry any time ancestry were mentioned! ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/50 "2018-10-16T04:58:49Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > They don’t accept her so of course their opinion is irrelvant. It’s irrelevant in that it has nothing to do with whether she’s X percent Native American or not. If she wanted to start claiming tribal benefits or start wearing tribal religious garb, then they’d have a legitimate complaint. Simply saying “My DNA shows native ancestry however many generations ago” isn’t offensive, it’s just stating a basic fact. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/51 "2018-10-16T05:05:00Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > It’s irrelevant in that it has nothing to do with whether she’s X percent Native American or not. If she wanted to start claiming tribal benefits or start wearing tribal religious garb, then they’d have a legitimate complaint. Simply saying “My DNA shows native ancestry however many generations ago” isn’t offensive, it’s just stating a basic fact. The DNA evidence unequivocally contradicts specific claims Senator Warren has made. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/52 "2018-10-16T05:09:40Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > It’s irrelevant in that it has nothing to do with whether she’s X percent Native American or not. If she wanted to start claiming tribal benefits or start wearing tribal religious garb, then they’d have a legitimate complaint. Simply saying “My DNA shows native ancestry however many generations ago” isn’t offensive, it’s just stating a basic fact. And her using that fact for taunting in a political context is apparently very offensive to the group. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/53 "2018-10-16T06:10:52Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > The DNA evidence unequivocally contradicts specific claims Senator Warren has made. Which specific claims are you talking about? The data is consistent with the claims I’m aware of, as they were never specific about how much NA ancestry she had. Please be sure to quote her exact words, too, as it’s easy to misconstrue claims she made by inaccurately paraphrasing. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/54 "2018-10-16T06:42:08Z")
What was the claim she made? Was it “grandmother was part Cherokee”? Which would be pretty specific. Or “family lore says that we have Cherokee blood”. Which is not. She is at best 1/64th Native American. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/55 "2018-10-16T07:08:13Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > And her using that fact for taunting in a political context is apparently very offensive to the group. No, it wasn’t. There is absolutely nothing in the statement about “taunting in a political context.” The only thing they claim is offensive is claiming some sort of membership or affiliation with the Cherokee Nation or other indigenous nations based on a genetic test. The problem is that Warren never did so. She simply used it to prove her heritage, after someone else had accused her of lying about it. Best case scenario is that the Cherokee Nation were misled about what happened. I won’t posit a worst case scenario. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/56 "2018-10-16T08:49:27Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Just imagine a person with a black ancestor, 8 generations ago claiming black heritage. Or, you know, having it imposed on them whether they wanted or no.[Just imagine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule)! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/57 "2018-10-16T09:01:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Which specific claims are you talking about? The data is consistent with the claims I’m aware of, as they were never specific about how much NA ancestry she had. Please be sure to quote her exact words, too, as it’s easy to misconstrue claims she made by inaccurately paraphrasing. Her specific claims are that her father’s side of the family did not want him to marry her mother because of her native american lineage. The DNA test contradicts this story; her mother would have been very far removed from any native american ancestry. There is the possibility that her mother believed she was native american despite having no contact with the tribe -its all possible, so none of this proves Warren is a liar. From everything I’ve seen, it looks like this is a case of a little white lie that got out of hand and the cover up ends up causing more damage than the crime. The original claims I heard against Warren were that she used her minority status to get hired. There is no evidence I have seen that would support this. It is also interesting to note that she listed herself as white and not native american when she applied to school and also never applied for any scholarships etc. that she would have been eligible for if she were native american. If we look at the first time she appears in any record as a native american it coincides with a time when Harvard was under pressure to be seen as more diverse. During those years she is listed as a minority. What seems most likely to me is that Harvard, being under pressure to show it was a diverse place, asked Warren to allow herself to be listed as a minority. This isn’t a great thing to do in my opinion, but it’s far less nefarious than lying on an application and taking a position away from a true minority. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/58 "2018-10-16T13:08:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Best case scenario is that the Cherokee Nation were misled about what happened. I won’t posit a worst case scenario. Most likely scenario is that they don’t want a bunch of dopes with 1% ancestry to declare themselves “Cherokee Princesses” and further dilute what it means to them to be Native American so they get overly defensive about the whole thing. > [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Her specific claims are that her father’s side of the family did not want him to marry her mother because of her native american lineage. The DNA test contradicts this story; her mother would have been very far removed from any native american ancestry. It doesn’t contradict any claim unless you have a statement from the people in question saying “No, that was never the case”. > [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > From everything I’ve seen, it looks like this is a case of a little white lie that got out of hand and the cover up ends up causing more damage than the crime. No, this is a case of Republicans going apeshit to smear and attack someone because of the “lol political correctness I guess YOU’RE the real hypocrite NOW, huh???” nonsense bullshit that the right wing delights in and Trump exemplifies. The only reason this has ever been a story is because of Republicans bringing it up in any possible context again and again because they were just sure that she had no such ancestry. Now it’s all frantic backpedaling and “Uh, that doesn’t count though!” because God forbid they just admit that they were acting like assholes. It’s no more complicated than that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/59 "2018-10-16T13:55:22Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Her specific claims are that her father’s side of the family did not want him to marry her mother because of her native american lineage. The DNA test contradicts this story; her mother would have been very far removed from any native american ancestry. Not really. First of all, the test showed her mother would be, perhaps, 5 generations removed from a “full-blooded” NA. And cultural norms at the time were such that even a whisper of “tainted blood” could inspire a bigoted response. Besides, if her family was even a little open about that ancestry, no one would have any way of knowing how deep that ancestry was. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/60 "2018-10-16T13:56:44Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Which debate between them was the one when she claimed Indian heritage? I know, right. And he also said he was going to get her DNA by getting a 2 oz kit and “slowly tossing it” at her at the debate (which, to be fair, I’m not sure how that would achieve the goal of obtaining her DNA), which he totally didn’t do, so clearly the bet was invalid. They don’t even make those kits in 2 oz varieties, so MAGA! I really didn’t imagine that this would be the hill that people would willingly die on in order to defend such an obvious lie from such an obvious liar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990.md?page=4)