# So Warren has Native American ancestry, 8 generations ago. Is she a minority? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 15, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990 "2018-10-15T16:26:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/81 "2018-10-17T23:03:20Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > That gets to be tricky because most Americans I know with ancestry dating back 3 or more generations, seem to have either some Native American or African blood in them from somewhere. Most Americans of of primarily European descent do not have either ancestry. There were great waves of European immigrants in the late 1800s and early 1900s and few of them would have had the opportunity to have children with Native Americans or people with Native American ancestry. > [@](#): > > I think that’s partly why I can usually tell a caucasian American from a European because we tend to have slightly darker skin. Unlikely. To the extent you can tell a difference it’s likely to be style of dress or hair or something like that. Or the fact that we Americans are typically fatter and sloppier in our dress than Europeans. One thing for sure is that with the large influx of folks from Latin America, there is a lot of Native American DNA getting back into the American gene pool. It might not be Cherokee or Dakota or Iroquois DNA, but it’s still NA DNA. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/82 "2018-10-17T23:39:36Z")
I should make the point that I’m not endorsing Warren’s claim. I’m just pointing out that the DNA evidence doesn’t contradict her claim. But in order to prove it, you would need to trace her ancestry and figure out who the source of the family legend is, if any. None of which has anything to do with anything really. At the end of the day, the message seems to be that she was naive and dumb about race, when she was young. She should admit that. But on the Kavanaugh scale of denying youthful stupidity, she’s at a 3. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/83 "2018-10-17T23:45:38Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Warren doesn’t want a million bucks from Trump. She wants Trump to donate a million bucks to charity, which would probably kill him. 😉 And that’s the classy way of doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/84 "2018-10-18T00:13:11Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > That gets to be tricky because most Americans I know with ancestry dating back 3 or more generations, seem to have either some Native American or African blood in them from somewhere. > > I think that’s partly why I can usually tell a caucasian American from a European because we tend to have slightly darker skin. My paternal ancestors have lived in the US since 1620, and the rather abrupt conclusion of my DNA analysis was that I’m 100% European. But I’ve got to say, as someone that has studied my ancestry, 6-10 generations isn’t that far back if the ancestor was unusual or prolific in some way - and an ancestor that had children with a Native American woman would probably be considered unusual. I have an ancestor 8 generations back that was a really interesting character and I know lots of cool stories about him which I consider part of my heritage regardless of DNA percentages. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/85 "2018-10-18T04:37:22Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > That gets to be tricky because most Americans I know with ancestry dating back 3 or more generations, seem to have either some Native American or African blood in them from somewhere. > > I think that’s partly why I can usually tell a caucasian American from a European because we tend to have slightly darker skin. Huh? My grandfather was the child of Eastern European immigrants and he had olive skin. Unless my great-grandmother was fooling around, he was purely of Hungarian-Slovak descent. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/86 "2018-10-18T07:05:26Z")
Thing is, it does not take very long for ancestry to be “lost”. Here is a test taken[on three soccer players.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C66VcXCKkNs) The guy with a background from a Turkish village ends up haveing some significant South American DNA, to his surprise, [while the child of Syrian refugees](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Dahoud) (last guy tested), ends up having some actual German ancestry. Ancestry is just as much a recent construct as traditional receipes it seems. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/87 "2018-10-18T07:49:54Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > But it’s become unclear who the ‘one drop rule people’ are in US society. In a way the Warren thing is just an extension in the trend of the ‘one drop rule people’ now being those on the **identity politics** left. Please stop misusing the term I bolded in your quote. I’ll simply quote Google’s definition: identity politics: “a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.” It has been explicitly stated that Warren has not actually allied with any Native American groups, so this is not an issue of identity politics. I am tired of real terms (usually with benign or even positive meanings) being used as snarl words. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/88 "2018-10-18T08:01:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not sure what you mean, but the report specified a “full blooded” or “non admixed” ancestor of Warren’s. Which means that her DNA says an ancestor somewhere between 6 and 10 generations ago was a Native American who did not have recent European (or other) ancestry. The point is that such does not necessarily mean that she didn’t have a later ancestor who was part of a Native American tribe. There is no reason to assume that all who were in the tribe had no European mixture in them themselves. That said, at this point, I don’t know why Warren won’t just admit that “I believed I was 1/8 Native American at the time, due to family stories. I now know this may not be true. I have taken a test, and it does seem that maybe my family story was not true.” I mean, how many of us don’t have that story in our family history? My great grandmother claimed to be 1/8 of some tribe (can’t remember which) and even gave us jewelry that she claimed had been passed down over the generations. Granted, being 1/64 Native American would not be enough to list anywhere, but I could see myself doing so if I believed it was 1/8. There’s really no big deal here, other than people who are okay with the “Pocahontas” slur. Are we just now giving up on the idea that the populace isn’t stupid and won’t make a mountain out of a molehill on the liberal side but doesn’t care if they have psychopath on the conservative side? Let her run, and we’ll see if she’s the best candidate. Sure, maybe this will hurt her. But let’s see. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/89 "2018-10-18T13:26:07Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I think that’s partly why I can usually tell a caucasian American from a European because we tend to have slightly darker skin. Oh sure, Joe Minnesota is several shades darker than Juan Español. And I’ve got some beachfront property in the Pyrenees you may be interested in. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/90 "2018-10-18T13:34:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The point is that such does not necessarily mean that she didn’t have a later ancestor who was part of a Native American tribe. There is no reason to assume that all who were in the tribe had no European mixture in them themselves. I’m not quite sure what you’re saying, but it sounds like the same thing I said. If she had a “later ancestor” who was a member of a tribe but who had some European ancestry, that wouldn’t be the ancestor that Bustamante detected. He only established where in the family tree the “non admixed” Native American was. > [@](#): > > That said, at this point, I don’t know why Warren won’t just admit that "I believed I was 1/8 Native American Probably because she never believed that. She never claimed nor indicated that she believed that her great-grandmother was a non admixed Native American. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/91 "2018-10-18T15:29:38Z")
I wonder if Faux-cahontas ever used the 1/8th Native American ancestry lie to get any government set-aside jobs or openings for school, etc. Because IIRC from the Ward Churchill debacle, I recall 1/8th being the magic number for minimum amount of Native American DNA to get those setasides. Did she ever put it in a job app? An application for college? An internship? (I’m not being rhetorical–I’d like to know). If she just lied about it, it’s contemptible, but if she actually took jobs and such from programs designed to help with Native American affirmative action (again, as Ward Churchill did) it goes beyond contemptible and into downright “she should resign her position” disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/92 "2018-10-18T16:17:53Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I wonder if Faux-cahontas ever used the 1/8th Native American ancestry lie to get any government set-aside jobs or openings for school, etc. Because IIRC from the Ward Churchill debacle, I recall 1/8th being the magic number for minimum amount of Native American DNA to get those setasides. > > Did she ever put it in a job app? An application for college? An internship? (I’m not being rhetorical–I’d like to know). If she just lied about it, it’s contemptible, but if she actually took jobs and such from programs designed to help with Native American affirmative action (again, as Ward Churchill did) it goes beyond contemptible and into downright “she should resign her position” disgusting. Everything I’ve read about this says “no”, but I don’t believe we have access to her employment records to prove it. What we have is interviews with the administration at the two Universities she worked at where this was an issue. The [snopes article](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-native-american/) addresses this. As for the 1/8 rule for government “set-aside jobs”, I’m not familiar with that and don’t know if it’s correct or not. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/93 "2018-10-19T04:32:33Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > My paternal ancestors have lived in the US since 1620, and the rather abrupt conclusion of my DNA analysis was that I’m 100% European. > > But I’ve got to say, as someone that has studied my ancestry, 6-10 generations isn’t that far back if the ancestor was unusual or prolific in some way - and an ancestor that had children with a Native American woman would probably be considered unusual. I have an ancestor 8 generations back that was a really interesting character and I know lots of cool stories about him which I consider part of my heritage regardless of DNA percentages. is he the pilgrim that was fowling around with a turkey? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/94 "2018-10-19T05:12:30Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I wonder if Faux-cahontas ever used the 1/8th Native American ancestry lie to get any government set-aside jobs or openings for school, etc. Because IIRC from the Ward Churchill debacle, I recall 1/8th being the magic number for minimum amount of Native American DNA to get those setasides. > > Did she ever put it in a job app? An application for college? An internship? (I’m not being rhetorical–I’d like to know). If she just lied about it, it’s contemptible, but if she actually took jobs and such from programs designed to help with Native American affirmative action (again, as Ward Churchill did) it goes beyond contemptible and into downright “she should resign her position” disgusting. Here’s the Boston Globe piece, which you can see from the title, would indicate a “no”: [Ethnicity not a factor in Elizabeth Warren’s rise in law](https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claiming-native-american-heritage-actually-help-elizabeth-warren-get-ahead-but-complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/95 "2018-10-19T16:22:48Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The spread was given from 6 to 10 generations–that ranges from about 1.5% to 0.09%. Nitpick about arithmetic: To two sig figs, the correct numbers are 1.6% and 0.10%. Am I being petty to point this out? _ **What I find petty** _ is people twisting numbers to favor their argument, but twisting by an amount _just_ small enough, that if someone points out the blunder it’s the _correction_ that looks petty. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/96 "2018-10-19T17:14:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Was your take on that incident that Maher totally made a bet and should pay up? Was that the judge’s take? Assuming the answer to both of those questions is “no”, why should that be the interpretation now? Uhhh. **Mr. Lurker** didn’t seem to comment on what _his_ interpretation was. Nor the judge’s. How confused you must be to think otherwise! What **Mr. Lurker** _did_ demonstrate is \*\*\*What the orange shitgibbon, Fuckface Von Clownstick, pretended to “think” about such bets. * * * ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/97 "2018-10-19T17:21:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > He did apologize to the actual Pocahontas … Oh! So you did watch the video. :smack: _ **And yet were unable to beat my challenge and find a single sentence in that long obnoxious rant that demonstrated the slightest smidgen of civility.** _ Or are you going to tell us with a straight face that the “apology to the actual Pocahontas” wasn’t uttered as just more despicable sarcasm? ---
**Author:** ![Haldurson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/51bf81/32.png) [@Haldurson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haldurson)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/98 "2018-10-19T20:41:14Z")
Except for specific legal reasons, it should be irrelevant to everyone who your ancestors are – you should neither take credit for, nor be blamed for the actions of your ancestors. We should take pride in our own actions, and those of our loved ones. Everything else has nothing to do with you. I hate those commercials for DNA tests. There certainly are very legitimate reasons to take a DNA test, but using it to decide if you should be wearing Lederhosen or a kilt, I find to be idiotic. It kind of violates our notion that all men being created equal, when how we dress or what and how we celebrate who who we are proud of is dependent on ancestors that we never knew, and had nothing to do with neither their crimes, nor their accomplishments.d There’s no accomplishment in being born in a specific place, or from specific parents. That’s just the roll of the dice. That said, can we agree that Trump is a racist idiot, and we knew that before his statements about Warren, and that unless Warren knowingly lied on a legal form (which it doesn’t seem like she did), her DNA shouldn’t be at all relevant to anything. I really believe that we put too much weight on heritage, and not enough weight on the individual. And I say that with all honesty, because, being born Jewish, I’ve seen both sides of the damage and insanity that placing weight on heritage can result in. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/99 "2018-10-19T21:33:59Z")
Seriously, worst case scenario Warren can be accused of believing her mother when she was told a family story. I’ve been told I am descended from William Bradford, and I have told this to a large number of people. I personally haven’t seen the documentation tracing the line (although my father says that my aunt has it), and so it is entirely possible that I am wrong. I don’t think that this in any way indicates that I am unfit for public office. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990/100 "2018-10-19T21:37:56Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Nitpick about arithmetic: To two sig figs, the correct numbers are 1.6% and 0.10%. > > Am I being petty to point this out? Yes. Yes you are. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the “around” numbers I gave and your strongly emotional reaction to it is extremely weird. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-warren-has-native-american-ancestry-8-generations-ago-is-she-a-minority/822990.md?page=6)