# So, Was Heraclitus Righ? Each Moment Unique? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-heraclitus-righ-each-moment-unique/384401 "2006-12-16T15:53:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-heraclitus-righ-each-moment-unique/384401/21 "2006-12-18T18:09:49Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] The ancient Greek philosopher Heraclitus posutaletd that nothing in the universe is permanent-except for change. he discussed the parable of a man walking into a river=the water flows past, and the event is unique=nothing in that moment will ever be EXACTLY the same again. Is this correct? Will events in human history never recur? Or will someone named RALPH124c , eons from now, sit down at akeyboard and type this message? šŸ˜• [/QUOTE] I would just say that the probability that two moments in this universe are identical in all respects is so remote that itā€™s not worth considering. Not only canā€™t a man stip into the same stream twice, the same man canā€™t step into any stream twice. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-heraclitus-righ-each-moment-unique/384401/22 "2006-12-18T18:37:01Z")
[QUOTE=A. I. Wintermute] If I start counting out loud 1, 2, 3, 4, ā€¦ Iā€™ll never say 1 again. [/QUOTE] Oh, youā€™ll say 1 again, but youā€™ll never say it with that particular breath of air again. Even if you say 1 into a plastic bag, then re-inhale the same air, it will mix with the air in your lungs, and your lungs will extract a little more oxygen, and add a little more carbon dioxide and water vapor to the mix. You can never breathe the same breath again. Itā€™s tricky, I know. Itā€™s even trickier when you say, ā€œYou are unique, just like everybody else.ā€ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-heraclitus-righ-each-moment-unique/384401/23 "2006-12-18T19:08:35Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] The article didnā€™t actually say that the existence of parallel universes was proven, only that certain observations of the universe in certain parts of the electromagnetic spectrum were consistent with a theory about parallel universes. More investigation is needed. However, the question is one that almost by definition canā€™t be settled definitely. [/QUOTE] That makes a little more sense. Iā€™ve got nothing against wild speculation, thatā€™s how many scientific theories began. Iā€™d just like to see speculation honestly labeled as such. I worry that the press tends to overstate some of these ideas as ā€œscienceā€ with all the respect that label grants. By the way, **Lord Ashtar** , I didnā€™t mean to be snippy at you in my first post above. I was just responding to an idea that, ISTM, is fundamentaly unprovable but was apparantly being presnted as fact, or at least as a likely possibility. Math and theoretical physics are great, but science needs empirical evidence and testable predictions. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-heraclitus-righ-each-moment-unique/384401/24 "2006-12-19T04:12:08Z")
I found [this](http://www.mukto-mona.com/science/physics/ParalellUniverse2003.pdf) link to a Scientific American article on parallel universes if anyone is interested. This is a PDF file, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-heraclitus-righ-each-moment-unique/384401/25 "2006-12-19T15:32:21Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] By the way, **Lord Ashtar** , I didnā€™t mean to be snippy at you in my first post above. I was just responding to an idea that, ISTM, is fundamentaly unprovable but was apparantly being presnted as fact, or at least as a likely possibility. Math and theoretical physics are great, but science needs empirical evidence and testable predictions. [/QUOTE] I didnā€™t take it as snippy. In fact, that was my first impression as I was reading the article myself. I remember thinking, ā€œIf we canā€™t even _see_ 10^10[sup]118[/sup] meters away, how can we possibly speculate as to whatā€™s there?ā€ Admittedly, most of it was above my head, but it was fun trying to stretch my brain cells. [QUOTE=Fiddle Peghead] I found [this](http://www.mukto-mona.com/science/physics/ParalellUniverse2003.pdf) link to a Scientific American article on parallel universes if anyone is interested. This is a PDF file, btw. [/QUOTE] Thatā€™s the article to which I was referring earlier, in case anyone was wondering. Unless you have a PhD in quantum physics, be prepared for your head to spin. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-heraclitus-righ-each-moment-unique/384401/26 "2006-12-19T16:01:38Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] I would just say that the probability that two moments in this universe are identical in all respects is so remote that itā€™s not worth considering. [/QUOTE] I agree with this post wholeheartedly. In addition, due to our incomplete understanding of quantum mechanics, even if the moments _were_ exactly the same, going forward they will produce entirely different results if the Copenhagen Interpretation of QM is correct! If, OTOH, there is a ā€œdeep hidden variableā€ somewhere that can _also_ be set the same, going forward from an _exactly the same_ universe will still produce the same outcome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-heraclitus-righ-each-moment-unique/384401.md?page=1)