# So was Picard supposed to be French or English? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 23, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750 "2009-06-23T19:20:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/41 "2009-06-24T01:13:06Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Sort of makes sense. The ship is supposed to be from an Earth without national gov’ts, so its a little odd that every human aboard appears to be an English speaking country. According to the backgrounds of the main TNG characters, 3 are from Earth. Picard is from France, Riker is from Alaska, and LaForge is from somewhere in Africa. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/42 "2009-06-24T01:18:06Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Yea, I think the show is pretty consistent in claiming that he’s French. Of course his accent is British, but between then and now we have several hundred years, WWIII and the eugenics wars (or are they the same thing?), so it’s hardly inconceivable that parts of France have English speaking people who nevertheless consider themselves French That _is_ a French accent in that century. The upper class Brits sound like Valley Girls. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/43 "2009-06-24T01:20:02Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > …It did seem a little odd to me though that in the first movie in the Nexus fantasy he was having a Victorian style Christmas - do the French have an appreciation for Dicken’s style Christmas? Even better: there was reference during the series to the fact that one of Picard’s ancestors served at the Battle of Trafalgar. In the Nexus dream-Christmas scene in _Generations_, if you look carefully you can see there’s a painting of a guy who looks an awful lot like Jean-Luc in early-1800s naval uniform. British and French officers at the time wore nearly-identical uniforms… so it’s hard to say if Picard’s ancestor fought for Nelson or Napoleon! Behold: [http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/artoftrek/picard-trafalgar.jpg](http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/artoftrek/picard-trafalgar.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/44 "2009-06-24T01:28:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > According to the backgrounds of the main TNG characters, 3 are from Earth. Picard is from France, Riker is from Alaska, and LaForge is from somewhere in Africa. Extra-canon sources specifically put the La Forges in what is now Mogadishu, Somalia, though the actual boundries of the African Confederation in which they lived are never made clear in fully canon sources. FTR, Dr Crusher was from the moon (Copernicus City, to be specific), and Tasha Yar was from a planet called Turkana IV. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/45 "2009-06-24T02:14:51Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > My point is that he has to sound like SOMETHING. I wouldn’t bank on it. Look at how regional accents are disappearing before the onslaught of movies, TV, and radio. Sure, the French will hold out as long as they can, but even they will collapse between the pincer of English and Chinese. _Firefly_ had it right. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/46 "2009-06-24T02:23:43Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Yea, I think the show is pretty consistent in claiming that he’s French. Of course his accent is British, but between then and now we have several hundred years, WWIII and the eugenics wars (or are they the same thing?), so it’s hardly inconceivable that parts of France have English speaking people who nevertheless consider themselves French When I visited France in early 1980’s most English-speaking French people I encountered had accents closer to Britain than America - which makes some sense, what with the proximity of Britain. At least then, they tended to favor British English. I suppose Picard could be a bilingual Frenchman who learned British English as opposed to some other variety. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/47 "2009-06-24T02:30:47Z")
There really isn’t a lot of point in fanwanking the accent of someone living three centuries into the future. Accents don’t stay the same for that long; whatever French and British people sound like in 2309, it will not be what they sound like today. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/48 "2009-06-24T08:02:00Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > It was always a bit silly to have such a proud Frenchman have so strongly upper-class British an accent. He doesn’t. Stewart used a very neutral, middle-of-the-road Received Pronunciation accent for the role. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/49 "2009-06-24T09:36:32Z")
By TNG I don’t think French is an actively used language. I seem to remember a scence where they’re analysing something and Data makes refence to an old language, French. Picard then gets huffy as it was the “language of Civilization for centuries”. Given the assumption that the French start to use English as a primary language, it is unsurprising that they then come to sound English after a few generations. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/50 "2009-06-24T10:43:04Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > By TNG I don’t think French is an actively used language. I seem to remember a scence where they’re analysing something and Data makes refence to an old language, French. Picard then gets huffy as it was the “language of Civilization for centuries”. Given the assumption that the French start to use English as a primary language, it is unsurprising that they then come to sound English after a few generations. Yes, it could be like Gaelic among the Irish today. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Of course, we also find out in “Family” that his brother, his sister-in-law, his nephew, and his childhood friend all have English accents too. Or, we’re watching that whole episode in translation. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/51 "2009-06-24T11:47:49Z")
Heh. Just thinking of the British/French confusion, one episode even featured Picard well, a doppelganger patterned after him, anyway singing [“Heart of Oak,”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Oak) the march of the Royal Navy! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/52 "2009-06-24T13:09:17Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Given the assumption that the French start to use English as a primary language Faster-than-light travel, transporter beams, holodecks, and telepathic bimbos in Danskins I can accept, but _some_ things are just too far beyond the realm of possibility for me to suspend disbelief! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/53 "2009-06-24T13:59:36Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Faster-than-light travel, transporter beams, holodecks, and telepathic bimbos in Danskins I can accept, but _some_ things are just too far beyond the realm of possibility for me to suspend disbelief! Yeah, I mean, c’mon! That’s just too far out there! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/54 "2009-06-24T16:49:31Z")
Then there’s the whole “Tea, Earl Grey, hot” thingy. Someone of true French heritage would be drinking Orangina or a cafe creme, to my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Casserole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b77776/32.png) [@Casserole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casserole)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/55 "2009-06-25T01:45:51Z")
I remember reading somewhere that Patrick Stewart initially went to his audition for Jean-Luc Picard with a toupee, but was told to take it off because he looked like a “stodgy English weatherman”. No cite, but it makes for a fun story 🙂 [In other news](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3rFNbSKpEE&feature=related). ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/56 "2009-06-25T01:57:01Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Heh. Just thinking of the British/French confusion, one episode even featured Picard well, a doppelganger patterned after him, anyway singing [“Heart of Oak,”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Oak) the march of the Royal Navy! 😃 That tears it. Not French. Over two centuries and they’re still pissed about Trafalgar. I don’t see another three helping much. [QUOTE=Casserole] [In other news.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3rFNbSKpEE&feature=related) [/quote] Before _American Dad_ I snobbilly hoped he was above that. Then I thought, “Well, anything for a buck.” Now, thanks to your link, I understand that British theatre geeks are just like American theater geeks, and are willing to do anything for a laugh. ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/57 "2009-06-25T22:01:14Z")
Singing Gilbert & Sullivan didn’t help either. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750/58 "2009-06-25T22:42:45Z")
Of course he was French, why else did he speak in such an outrageous accent? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-was-picard-supposed-to-be-french-or-english/500750.md?page=2)