# So we can't comment on scams now? {no, not a rule} **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 28, 2021, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779 "2021-12-28T12:21:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/21 "2021-12-29T14:55:28Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And it’s relevant that last time this scam came up, dedeth’s advise was to deposit the check, and he was mod-noted and told not to give similar advice. I don’t think it was “similar advice” in the specific context of the mod warning. Last time he said to just deposit the check and wait a month. This time he said to consult the bank and do what they tell you. In particular, the reason for the moderation last time was that it might possibly be illegal. This was incorrect then but even if you accept that it might have been illegal to just deposit the check, that very likely wouldn’t apply if you asked the bank and did what they told you. So someone who took the prior moderation at face value would not assume that the current post was problematic. The problem here (unless it’s just that the mods have a personal history with DrDeth) is apparently that the mods realized that the original moderator assertion was incorrect, so they retroactively reinterpreted it, and the current post thereby became a violation of that retroactive reinterpretation. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/22 "2021-12-29T21:54:27Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > When you’re cashing or depositing a check with all the hallmarks of a scam, it’s terrible advice to tell someone to trust a bank teller’s judgment as to whether a check is legitimate or not. Because they have no way of knowing. > > It’s bad advice, and when a poster has a history of bad advice, has been told in the past to stop dispensing dangerous advice in that area, and continues to do so, the warning is absolutely deserved. The bank most certainly has a way of telling if the check is bad, especially counterfeit cashiers checks- there is a list you can access if you are a Bank security person, etc. The bank can also call the bank on whom the check is drawn, they can check the signature and the balance, and the history. But yes, no teller can or will tell you a check is _good,_ unless perhaps it is drown on that branch right there, and even so, there can be issues. And that is my point. You go into your bank and tell them the story- they will say one of three things: 1. _We have checked, and verified the check is bad._ This is actually the best outcome, and the one I was hoping for. Why? Because now the OP, has confirmation it is no good. Up until his bank tells him is is no good, all he has is the advice of some randos on a MB. He would always have doubts. Now he has closure and confirmation. 2. "_We don’t know if it is bad or good, sorry"_ and my advice was- don’t deposit it then. 3. “_Sorry, that isn’t something we help our customers with_.” My advice there was again-don’t deposit it then, and consider changing financial institutions. **There is no option where the bank will guarantee it and he will deposit it.** And I do not have a history of bad advice. Colobri shut me down before I could explain. Not to mention what is it they say about a Mod Note “_nothing on your permanent record_”- well that doesn’t seem to be true. I am ACAMS certified. I was a US treasury agent for 20 years. I double checked my advice by asking a retired FBI agent now consulting (as am I) with a large Financial Institution. (pretty much, all us retired experts in financial crime spend our retirement consulting, etc) and also the BSA officer of a Bank I know, For the purposes of financial crime, I would be a MD, not a clerk. > [@Babale](#): > > The bank teller who DrDeth thinks you should talk to can tell you exactly one thing: whether the check is valid or not. Not really. They can say it is not, but not that it is. Unless it is their own bank check. What is amazing here is the double down by the mods. They admit they were wrong, that my new posts were not like my older post. They admit that my advice was in no way illegal. But instead of reversing the warning, they double down, gave me a second warning and also said- in their ignorance- that I- the only certified expert on such matters posting- can’t give advice on scams. This crazy idea of always circling the wagons and admitting they were wrong only if dozens of posters post in ATMB is hardly conducive to good customer service. > [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, “everybody knows that”. Including @DrDeth . Which is why a lot of people end up getting burned when they discover it isn’t true. When you bring in a check like this, the bank will tell you that it’s cleared, and you can go ahead and spend the money. And then, when the check in fact does not clear, the bank will hold you accountable for the money. That’s what makes @DrDeth 's advice dangerous. It would be dangerous if I said to deposit it. But I did not. **I said to deposit it only if the bank guarantees it- which they will not.** > [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and I have not made myself an authority on this matter. This was discussed extensively by all of the moderators. None of whom are certified Financial crime experts. > [@CairoCarol](#): > > And according to the mod note, “We say this after consulting with a veteran bank executive.” Who more or less, according to what you posted- agreed with me. He said the bank can not tell you that the check is good. That is correct (if he said the bank can’t tell if the check is bad, he is wrong. Did you mention to this “bank executive” my credentials? I bet not). And if they bank can’t tell you that the check is good- what did I say- **don’t deposit it.** What I wanted for for the OP to go down to the bank, get good advice from a professional, so he had closure, so that he KNEW the check was no good. > [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > The problem here (unless it’s just that the mods have a personal history with DrDeth) is apparently that the mods realized that the original moderator assertion was incorrect,… **Bingo.** ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/23 "2021-12-29T21:55:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And that is my point. You go into your bank and tell them the story- they will say one of three things: > > 1. _We have checked, and verified the check is bad._ This is actually the best outcome, and the one I was hoping for. Why? Because now the OP, has confirmation it is no good. Up until his bank tells him is is no good, all he has is the advice of some randos on a MB. He would always have doubts. Now he has closure and confirmation. > 2. " _We don’t know if it is bad or good, sorry"_ and my advice was- don’t deposit it then. > 3. “ _Sorry, that isn’t something we help our customers with_ .” My advice there was again-don’t deposit it then, and consider changing financial institutions. 🤦‍♂️ in all 3 of those options the answer is “don’t deposit the check”, so why not just say so and be done with it? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/24 "2021-12-29T22:02:08Z")
“What I wanted for for the OP to go down to the bank, get good advice from a professional, so he had closure, so that he KNEW the check was no good.” If I said- the check was no good, he wouldn’t do that. You have to hold out hope to make people take the extra step. Taking that extra step was the right thing to do. **Listen to a professional, if possible, not randos.** ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/25 "2021-12-29T22:04:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Did you mention to this “bank executive” my credentials? I bet not). It’s unclear why you are addressing this question to me, as I am not part of the mod team. In addition, I have no idea what your credentials are, I just recall vague references you’ve made over the years to having helped investigate fraud, or something sort of like that. (Edit - I see you discuss them above, but why would you assume the mods are super familiar with them and are going to discuss them with an outside expert they ask for comment?) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/26 "2021-12-29T22:10:00Z")
Sorry, you are right, that should have been addressed to a Mod. My apologies. As I said here -I am ACAMS certified. I was a US treasury agent for 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/27 "2021-12-29T22:44:09Z")
AFAIK, under present technology, there is no way for anyone at the bank to tell if a check presented, if drawn on another bank, can be turned into cash without actually trying to do so. (Correct me if I am wrong.) So telling someone to “ask a professional” while suggesting that a bank employee is that professional is not good advice, no matter what your background may be. Isn’t this what the question hinges upon? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/28 "2021-12-29T23:29:05Z")
The professional can confirm it is a bad check. So, that would bring closure. This is like one of our residents MDs saying something like “Yeah, getting the vaccine is usually a good idea, but checking with your Doctor is a good idea if you are in doubt.” . **Consult a professional when in doubt.** Lawyers, Doctors, etc. Coming here is fine, of course. Usually the advice isn’t bad. But consulting with a professional is the best idea. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/29 "2021-12-29T23:54:12Z")
How can _anyone_ (professional or not) determine if a check is good? And by “good”, I mean can be converted into cash without delay, not if it is neatly printed or apparently drawn on an existing account. Please tell us how that can be done without an actual, irreversible transaction at or by the issuing bank. I’ve wanted to know this for years. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/30 "2021-12-30T00:44:25Z")
There really is no reliable way, which is why a bank officer won’t guarantee it. They can tell you if it is bad, but not good. But the funny thing here is the Mod culture. They have, afaik, one financial crimes expert. So, so hater reports my post, and links to the year old Note. So, what would be the smart thing? Why, Pm me _“Hey Doc, I know you are supposed to be an expert on this, but your advice make no sense to me. It looks like…, so explain yourself, as we are considering a warning.”_ And then I would explain, of course, that the bank can not and will not guarantee the check is good, so there is no outcome where the check is deposited. However, the OP may well get good advice from their bank, tell them the check is bad, thus they now have received professional advice and thus closure. But NOOOOOO. Don’t ask questions, just get out the old jackboots and warning hammer. And then when you are shown you are absolutely totally dead wrong- double down with a second warning and a topic ban… just to save face, rather than admit you were wrong. And now, you have saved face, and looked stern, and made yourself popular with the posters that don’t like me. Sure, you have topic banned the one certified expert on a subject, but that is a small price to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/31 "2021-12-30T01:09:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There really is no reliable way, which is why a bank officer won’t guarantee it. > > They can tell you if it is bad, but not good. So why advise someone to ask a bank employee? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/32 "2021-12-30T01:11:55Z")
---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779/33 "2021-12-30T01:12:27Z")
The question raised by the OP in this thread has been answered, and DrDeth has had an opportunity to restate his case. The matter having been thoroughly aired, we’re closing this thread. To repeat: we don’t wish to hear any further advice or other commentary about scams from DrDeth. We’ve grown weary of this subject and would appreciate it if everyone could please give it a rest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-cant-comment-on-scams-now-no-not-a-rule/956779.md?page=1)