# So, we should get used to saying "President Christie?" Yea or nay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 21, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448 "2013-11-21T17:12:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/261 "2014-01-09T12:58:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Also, don’t call it legitimate, because no one but apologists are making that argument. The administration admitted wrongdoing and fired people, and the IRS is still under criminal investigation. The Justice Department only just appointed the head investigator yesterday. So you don’t care what the statute actually says about the groups needing to be EXCLUSIVELY dedicated to public welfare? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/262 "2014-01-09T13:20:44Z")
I wouldn’t care if they had decided to start enforcing the law equally, at the direction of someone qualified to make that call. Instead, the counsel’s office specifically requested Tea Party forms for extra scrutiny. It would be like suddenly deciding to enforce immigration law by targeting Sri Lankans for deportation. If enforcement of a law is generally lax, then it stays lax until a decision is made to enforce it better. And such enforcement must be fair and across the board, not targeted conveniently at political opponents of the administration. NOW the administration has issued the rules you want, so now the IRS can give these groups extra scrutiny. So long as they do it fairly. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/263 "2014-01-09T13:25:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They do not require daily staffing, I should say. The WWII memorial is open whether there is anyone to staff it or not. Closing it was an act of malice. So, when there’s no staff, who empties the garbage cans? Who cleans up the bathroom? Who makes sure nobody’s spray-painting swastikas all over the monument? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/264 "2014-01-09T13:31:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I wouldn’t care if they had decided to start enforcing the law equally, at the direction of someone qualified to make that call. Instead, the counsel’s office specifically requested Tea Party forms for extra scrutiny. > > It would be like suddenly deciding to enforce immigration law by targeting Sri Lankans for deportation. If enforcement of a law is generally lax, then it stays lax until a decision is made to enforce it better. And such enforcement must be fair and across the board, not targeted conveniently at political opponents of the administration. > > NOW the administration has issued the rules you want, so now the IRS can give these groups extra scrutiny. So long as they do it fairly. DO try to keep up. [Liberal groups were targeted, too.](http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/18/politics/irs-scandal/) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/265 "2014-01-09T13:46:34Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > DO try to keep up. [Liberal groups were targeted, too.](http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/18/politics/irs-scandal/) They don’t count, because Obama! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/266 "2014-01-09T14:42:58Z")
I think you guys are overreacting to this a bit. I don’t know how much Christie is involved in the day-to-day running of the Port Authority, but nobody outside the NY/NJ area is really going to care that much - certainly not in two years. Every politician has some lunkhead staffers. Let’s drop the “But Obama!” stuff too. This thread isn’t about him. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/267 "2014-01-09T14:48:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think you guys are overreacting to this a bit. I don’t know how much Christie is involved in the day-to-day running of the Port Authority, but nobody outside the NY/NJ area is really going to care that much - certainly not in two years. Every politician has some lunkhead staffers. > > Let’s drop the “But Obama!” stuff too. This thread isn’t about him. Lunkhead, maybe. Vengeful psychopaths, I hope not. This isn’t about a stupid mistake, it’s about willful endangerment of a city’s population for political retribution. Either Christie is a thug or he hired thugs. Not pretty in either case. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/268 "2014-01-09T14:53:40Z")
No, but not exactly a Watergate moment. Now, if the next of kin of the old lady who died start talking to the media… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/269 "2014-01-09T14:58:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think you guys are overreacting to this a bit. I don’t know how much Christie is involved in the day-to-day running of the Port Authority, but nobody outside the NY/NJ area is really going to care that much - certainly not in two years. Every politician has some lunkhead staffers. There are going to be big, mean political ads, from both Republican and Democratic rivals, that say something to the effect of “Christie’s office shut down the bridge for political retribution… and this man/woman/child died because the ambulance didn’t arrive in time.” That’s going to be powerful stuff, politically. Even if Christie wasn’t directly involved, tying his immediate staffers to political retributions that led to _deaths_ could be shattering to presidential ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/270 "2014-01-09T15:00:12Z")
Something I haven’t seen brought up much about this…they closed those lanes on Sep. 9 through Sep. 12. Notice that little date in between those two? On the anniversary of the worst terrorist attack on the US and NYC in history. Closing lanes to cause major traffic jams which leave commuters sitting ducks on the most heavily traveled motor bridge in the country, and which was shown to have delayed or blocked emergency vehicles. I’m kind of surprised that the dates haven’t figured into this more, to tell the truth. I don’t think they were deliberately chosen, but they certainly add to the weight of stupidity in this whole operation. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/271 "2014-01-09T15:10:07Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Something I haven’t seen brought up much about this…they closed those lanes on Sep. 9 through Sep. 12. Notice that little date in between those two? On the anniversary of the worst terrorist attack on the US and NYC in history. Closing lanes to cause major traffic jams which leave commuters sitting ducks on the most heavily traveled motor bridge in the country, and which was shown to have delayed or blocked emergency vehicles. > > I’m kind of surprised that the dates haven’t figured into this more, to tell the truth. I don’t think they were deliberately chosen, but they certainly add to the weight of stupidity in this whole operation. I think the dates were chosen to create havoc on the first day of school. Not only those kids who rode buses over the bridge but every kid in the gridlock in Fort Lee. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/272 "2014-01-09T15:24:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, but not exactly a Watergate moment. Now, if the next of kin of the old lady who died start talking to the media… Or the parents of the four-year-old that went missing… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/273 "2014-01-09T15:55:14Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Something I haven’t seen brought up much about this…they closed those lanes on Sep. 9 through Sep. 12. Notice that little date in between those two? On the anniversary of the worst terrorist attack on the US and NYC in history. Closing lanes to cause major traffic jams which leave commuters sitting ducks on the most heavily traveled motor bridge in the country, and which was shown to have delayed or blocked emergency vehicles. > > I’m kind of surprised that the dates haven’t figured into this more, to tell the truth. I don’t think they were deliberately chosen, but they certainly add to the weight of stupidity in this whole operation. This is getting worse for Christie, that is for sure, but people were not stuck on the Bridge, they could not get onto the Bridge. So no sense taking it further than it really was. The best Christie can hope for at this point is to be perceived as someone that allowed for an environment for such petty and sloppy maleficence to happen. This story has more legs and more reach than I ever expected. [\*\*BobLibDem \*\*was right a month ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16917104&postcount=119)that this would cost Christie a lot. I never expected it to go this high and this close to Christie. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/274 "2014-01-09T16:10:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think you guys are overreacting to this a bit. I don’t know how much Christie is involved in the day-to-day running of the Port Authority, but nobody outside the NY/NJ area is really going to care that much. Willie Horton was hugely damaging to Mike Dukakis’ presidential campaign, even though Dukakis wasn’t at all involved in his furlough. It’s not personal involvement, it’s the degree to which a scandal sticks to a candidate and shapes perceptions about him. And this is sticking, and it’s going to get worse:[US Attorney opening inquiry into lane closings](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/nyregion/christie-controversy-bridge-lane-closings.html?hp&_r=0). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/275 "2014-01-09T16:11:34Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > This is getting worse for Christie, that is for sure, but people were not stuck on the Bridge, they could not get onto the Bridge. So no sense taking it further than it really was. > > The best Christie can hope for at this point is to be perceived as someone that allowed for an environment for such petty and sloppy maleficence to happen. This story has more legs and more reach than I ever expected. [\*\*BobLibDem \*\*was right a month ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16917104&postcount=119)that this would cost Christie a lot. I never expected it to go this high and this close to Christie. Thanks for the shout out. But whether they were stuck on the bridge or approaching the bridge isn’t the point. From what I understand, the backups from the ramps affected the whole city. There was gridlock in the entire city, from what I have read. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/276 "2014-01-09T16:13:52Z")
Christie has fired Kelly for lying to him. When the US attorney talks to her about her role in the lane closures, I wonder what incentive she has not to turn on Christie. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/277 "2014-01-09T16:19:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t know how much Christie is involved in the day-to-day running of the Port Authority, Not to harp on you, RNATB, but the issue is that Christie’s inner circle directed the bridge closing, and Christie’s cronies at the Port Authority jumped to obey. This touches Christie personally, and now the fight is to prevent Christie from appearing to have personally ordered the retribution. He’s fired Kelly now, and Josh Marshall at TPM, live blogging the press conference, says > [@](#): > > Christie must either be very certain Bridget Kelly won’t rat him out or very certain that he had nothing to do with this because, man, he is burying her. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/278 "2014-01-09T16:56:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright View Post > I think you guys are overreacting to this a bit. I don’t know how much Christie is involved in the day-to-day running of the Port Authority, but nobody outside the NY/NJ area is really going to care that much. I haven’t lived in NYC for over 25 years, and am now on the West Coast. I even kinda liked Cristie, as an “authentic” and non-Tea Party straight-shooting conservative. I believe this is a real problem for Chrisie, nationwide. It’s easy to understand and it fits peoples worst fears about the man. And, it’s so \*stupid. \* Mean is okay, stupid is not. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/279 "2014-01-09T17:04:43Z")
How much positive will be gained by the way he is handling the issue. I mean, look at what has happened: [ol] [li]Christie has owned responsibility for the incident (at least that it happened in his administration, on his watch).[/li][li]He identified the people who did it.[/li][li]Publicly executed them (figuratively).[/li][/ol] What else can he do? I’m no great fan of Christie, but at least he isn’t a plutocrat like Romney. I wish other politicians would react to scandals this way. Bill Clinton should have owned the whole Lewinsky affair from the outset instead of obfuscating, for example. The nation would have been saved a whole lot of trouble and the impeachment never would have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/280 "2014-01-09T17:07:33Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > What else can he do? Convince people he’s telling the truth. Good luck to him on that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448.md?page=15)