# So, we should get used to saying "President Christie?" Yea or nay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 21, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448 "2013-11-21T17:12:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/81 "2013-11-22T21:50:09Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > What if? I love that term … 🙂 > > What if Christie lost the nomination for the Republican party, which I’m sure he will, and someone backed him to run for POUS as an independent? > > Who would he take votes from? The democrats or the republicans? > > Who was that man that ran as an independent in November 2000? > > Whoever he was kept Gore from beating out Bush in the by now famous presidential election of that year, because people said the votes he got would’ve gone to Gore. Ralph Nader and I voted for him and I was still a registered Republican back then. I did not like Gore and hated Cheney and thought Bush was an idiot so I voted for the Green Party candidate. In theory my vote would have Republican. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/82 "2013-11-22T23:12:53Z")
Anything over a year is a long time in politics. I remember circa 2003 and the “_Can anything stop Howard Dean_” articles. He was definitely flavor of the day at that time. In the end he didn’t do squat.:rolleyes: So I’m not worried about CC right now. But if he even runs in '16 I will be one of the majority that keeps him off the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/83 "2013-11-22T23:14:09Z")
> [@ILikeForeignLanguages](#): > > Further proof is the fact that homosexual behavior can cause sickness (AIDS). So can heterosexual behavior. AIDS is devastating Africa, and not because they’re all gay there. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/84 "2013-11-22T23:47:06Z")
> [@ILikeForeignLanguages](#): > > John McCain and Mitt Romney _did_\*\* distance themselves from that; they were not “far right loons;” they were moderate/liberal-republicans, and they both lost rather squarely. > When people say “far-right loon,” I assume they are referring to devout conservatives who stick to what they believe and don’t lend themselves to moderatism or liberalism in order to get votes. > About 2 or 3 million people who would have voted for Mitt Romney decided to sit out the election and not vote in 2012. The reason they gave wasn’t that he was _too_\*\* conservative, it was that he wasn’t conservative _enough_\*\*. > Some say that the far-right is sinking the GOP, and that the middle-right is the party’s only hope; however, I believe it might be the other way around. I’ll echo the call for a cite. That many Republicans sitting it out would have led to a decline in turnout and an even bigger win for Obama. McCain nominated the right wing’s darling for VP, remember? It wouldn’t have mattered in any case, since Bush screwed the pooch so badly McCain didn’t really have a chance. Romney definitely turned right, though he was a bit all over the map. What he said in the secret video was quite conservative. His problem was that he couldn’t even put away the line of bozos he faced. However, I think you opinion is common, and it won’t change until the Republicans nominate a true blue Tea Partier and he gets crushed. And even then it will be the fault of the mainstream media, no doubt. That you don’t win by moving to the extreme is Politics 101. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/85 "2013-11-23T00:14:47Z")
> [@bup](#): > > That’s a good point. The people that dislike Hillary hate her so much they become slobbering balls of rage, and will vote against her even if they’re on life support. > > People dislike the loud mouth Christie, but not like he’s the devil. Democrats will have their work cut out for them ‘firing up the base’ with the prospects of doom and gloom of Ralph Kramden running the country. Depth of hate is really not very important. It doesn’t matter if you dislike Clinton or hate Clinton with the burning rage of a thousand suns. The result is identical - you cast your vote for somebody else. Elections are not decided by the people who love or hate the candidates - those people made up their minds who they were going to vote for decades ago. Elections are decided by the swing voters in the middle who really are genuinely willing to vote for either either side. These are the voters you have to reach to win. That’s why the Democrats keep winning elections. They reach for the center where the needed votes are while the Republicans are reaching for the right. The Republicans want to win in 2016? Look for a candidate who’s more moderate than Clinton instead of looking for a candidate who’s more extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/86 "2013-11-23T00:20:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Elections are decided by the swing voters in the middle who really are genuinely willing to vote for either either side. These are the voters you have to reach to win. > > That’s why the Democrats keep winning elections. They reach for the center where the needed votes are while the Republicans are reaching for the right. I think Romney said it best when he said that President Obama bought the election with promises to the poor people of this land and in the end that’s who put him over the top. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/87 "2013-11-23T00:34:06Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I think Romney said it best when he said that President Obama bought the election with promises to the poor people of this land and in the end that’s who put him over the top. Can you name anything in particular that Obama promised to poor people? Didn’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/88 "2013-11-23T01:01:46Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I think Romney said it best when he said that President Obama bought the election with promises to the poor people of this land and in the end that’s who put him over the top. Imagine! Wanting to govern in favor of the actual majority instead of just the billionaires… ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/89 "2013-11-23T01:04:42Z")
> [@ILikeForeignLanguages](#): > > John McCain and Mitt Romney _did_\*\* distance themselves from that; they were not “far right loons;” they were moderate/liberal-republicans, and they both lost rather squarely. > When people say “far-right loon,” I assume they are referring to devout conservatives who stick to what they believe and don’t lend themselves to moderatism or liberalism in order to get votes. > About 2 or 3 million people who would have voted for Mitt Romney decided to sit out the election and not vote in 2012. The reason they gave wasn’t that he was _too_\*\* conservative, it was that he wasn’t conservative _enough_\*\*. > Some say that the far-right is sinking the GOP, and that the middle-right is the party’s only hope; however, I believe it might be the other way around. Devout conservatives like Santorum? Palin? Bachmann? Cain? those 2-3 million who decided to sit out would have been canceled out by the tens of millions who would never vote for one of your “devout conservatives”. The problem with McCain and Romney was that they had to pretend to be right wing loons to get through the primaries then had to attach right wing loons to their campaigns to appease the base. What if McCain had ran with a solid business man like Romney instead of a complete moron? what if he had not had to disavow immigration reform he fought very hard for because “devout conservatives” are racists to the bone? What if Romney had not had to be the “self deportation” candidate for the same reason? or had not disavowed his greatest accomplishment because suddenly a republican based health care reform plan was the worst thing to happen to America? Your “devout conservatives” are the biggest problem with America right now and the reason the Republican party is floundering when they should be thriving. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/90 "2013-11-23T02:08:22Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Who was that man that ran as an independent in November 2000? > > Whoever he was kept Gore from beating out Bush in the by now famous presidential election of that year, because people said the votes he got would’ve gone to Gore. Pat Buchanan. That’s not what you meant, but it’s true. > [@Little Nemo](#): > > Depth of hate is really not very important. It doesn’t matter if you dislike Clinton or hate Clinton with the burning rage of a thousand suns. The result is identical - you cast your vote for somebody else. If you vote. The people in this forum aren’t representative of the US electorate, which shows up at about 55% for an average presidential election. When they really hate the opponent, it’s more like 60%. > [@](#): > > That’s why the Democrats keep winning elections. Yep, a winning streak that’s as long as… two. One candidate, two elections. Before that, the Republicans won two in a row with a guy that was not moderate. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/91 "2013-11-23T02:28:28Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > What if Christie lost the nomination for the Republican party, which I’m sure he will, and someone backed him to run for POUS as an independent? > > Who would he take votes from? The democrats or the republicans? I don’t know, but I do know that if he won, they would be united in opposition to his legislative proposals. First rule for a new American political party is that you have to get your people in the legislatures before they can go into executive positions. P.S. Actually, I do think I know who he would take more votes from. I think he would take more votes from the GOP. But since that wasn’t the point of my post, I didn’t mention it originally. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/92 "2013-11-23T02:40:25Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I think Romney said it best when he said that President Obama bought the election with promises to the poor people of this land and in the end that’s who put him over the top. If Romney said that, it was a dumb move. Romney’s problem throughout the campaign was the perception that he was a rich person who only cared about the interests of other rich people. Romney would have been foolish to badmouth the poor because most of us realized we’re the poor in his eyes. Romney needed to put out a Roosevelt/Kennedy message of “I may be rich but I care about the needs of the poor.” The fact that he failed to sell this message (and barely tried) is a big reason why he’s not President. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/93 "2013-11-23T02:44:54Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > What if McCain had ran with a solid business man like Romney instead of a complete moron? I still say if McCain had picked Pawlenty (who was supposedly his first choice) he could have won. ---
**Author:** ![ILikeForeignLanguages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bc8723/32.png) [@ILikeForeignLanguages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ILikeForeignLanguages)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/94 "2013-11-23T03:51:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’ll echo the call for a cite. That many Republicans sitting it out would have led to a decline in turnout and an even bigger win for Obama. > > McCain nominated the right wing’s darling for VP, remember? It wouldn’t have mattered in any case, since Bush screwed the pooch so badly McCain didn’t really have a chance. > Romney definitely turned right, though he was a bit all over the map. What he said in the secret video was quite conservative. His problem was that he couldn’t even put away the line of bozos he faced. > However, I think you opinion is common, and it won’t change until the Republicans nominate a true blue Tea Partier and he gets crushed. And even then it will be the fault of the mainstream media, no doubt. That you don’t win by moving to the extreme is Politics 101. I think it was fox news (it’s been a while). And, by the way, I left out an important detail; these people actually had _two_\*\* reasons for not voting: 1. Like I pointed out before, they said Romney wasn’t conservative enough. 2. Many were Evangelicals who refused to vote for a Mormon. ---
**Author:** ![ILikeForeignLanguages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bc8723/32.png) [@ILikeForeignLanguages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ILikeForeignLanguages)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/95 "2013-11-23T04:19:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What evidence do you have in support of that belief? People are not born gay, and they’re not born straight either. No one is “born” with a sexual preference; sexual preferences originate during adolescence/puberty, not at birth. I believe that a child who grows up in a normal, healthy environment will be straight when he or she hits puberty; if he or she turns out to be gay, lesbian or bisexual, my theory (emphasis on “theory,” seeing as I’m not an expert) is that it may have something to do with unusual childhood experience (molestation, exposure to pornography, etc.). > [@](#): > > There are a large number of couples in the US who are incapable of having children. Homosexuals make up only a small percentage of them. Is homosexuality more unnatural than being post-menopausal? Why? > > Also, can you define how you’re using the word “natural” here? Homosexuality is not “natural” because the way human beings were created/designed is indicative of the fact that procreation is meant for opposite sex couples. Males have sperm and females have ovaries. The only way for procreation to work is when male and female organs work together. > [@](#): > > Homosexuality doesn’t cause AIDS. HIV causes AIDS. Far more heterosexuals world wide suffer from AIDS than do homosexuals. I’m not an expert on HIV or AIDS, but I do know that one of those things can be the result of homosexual behavior. Not to mention, bleeding from the anus is another result. > [@](#): > > Yes, well, “hate-monger” does seem rather strong, I’ll grant you that. Although, honestly, why I should care what you _like_ is beyond me, given the attitudes you’ve already expressed about me in this thread. The attitudes I’ve expressed about _you_\*? I didn’t even know you were gay.\*\*\* All of my responses to your questions are inside the quote box. It was a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/96 "2013-11-23T04:24:26Z")
> [@ILikeForeignLanguages](#): > > The attitudes I’ve expressed about _you_\*\*? I didn’t even know you were gay. Which, see, makes it okay for him to express those attitudes, since they were directed at the Great Faceless Homosexy Masses, not at an actual individual. Not deliberately, anyway. By the way, I’m gay, too. So are a whole bunch of Dopers. You might want to consider that you ARE talking about us, even if you’re not intentionally directing your remarks at each of us as individuals. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/97 "2013-11-23T06:25:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Elections are not decided by the people who love or hate the candidates - those people made up their minds who they were going to vote for decades ago. Elections are decided by the swing voters in the middle who really are genuinely willing to vote for either either side. These are the voters you have to reach to win. Substantially true, but amend that: Elections are also won by voters on the extreme fringes, who might stay home on e-day unless one of the candidates at least gives the appearance of being extreme enough for them in their way. They’re the RW voters who gave the Tea Party its 2010 boost, and the LW voters who got behind Obama in 2008 and, for the most part, in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/98 "2013-11-23T06:27:44Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I think Romney said it best when he said that President Obama bought the election with promises to the poor people of this land and in the end that’s who put him over the top. Well, that’s exactly the way it **always** should be, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![ILikeForeignLanguages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bc8723/32.png) [@ILikeForeignLanguages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ILikeForeignLanguages)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/99 "2013-11-23T06:39:25Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Which, see, makes it okay for him to express those attitudes, since they were directed at the Great Faceless Homosexy Masses, not at an actual individual. Not deliberately, anyway. > > By the way, I’m gay, too. So are a whole bunch of Dopers. You might want to consider that you ARE talking about us, even if you’re not intentionally directing your remarks at each of us as individuals. Okay, thanks for the heads up. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448/100 "2013-11-23T14:02:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Substantially true, but amend that: Elections are also won by voters on the extreme fringes, who might stay home on e-day unless one of the candidates at least gives the appearance of being extreme enough for them in their way. They’re the RW voters who gave the Tea Party its 2010 boost, and the LW voters who got behind Obama in 2008 and, for the most part, in 2012. True. But most campaign decisions risk alienating some voters as you seek the support of others. So it’s about deciding whether you gain more votes than you lose. By that logic, moving towards the center makes sense. First, there are more voters there - by definition, most voters are in the middle even if the location of that middle can shift. Second, if you lost voters on the extreme, your opponent doesn’t gain them. Voters who thought Obama was too conservative or Romney was too liberal either sat home or voted for some third party candidate - they didn’t defect to the other major candidate. But lose voters in the middle and they might switch to supporting your opponent and that means he’s gone up by the amount you went down. The damage from those lost votes is doubled. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-should-get-used-to-saying-president-christie-yea-or-nay/674448.md?page=6)