# So "We speak English" is racist, but "Hablamos Espanol" isn't? Uh huh then... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 15, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089 "2005-11-15T01:23:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exploding\_Kitchen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/21 "2005-11-15T05:50:21Z")
Handy dandy tip sheet for Spanish letterings on English keyboards. ALT-164 = ñ ALT-168 = ¿ ALT-160 = á ALT-161 = í ALT-162 = ó ALT-163 = ú ALT-165 = Ñ ALT-138 = è ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/22 "2005-11-15T06:53:48Z")
I’m not divining anything about the guy’s intent in this case. As far as what little I know, it seems he had a legitimate intent. I was just pointing out how it could be interpreted as racist “code” in some circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/23 "2005-11-15T07:26:07Z")
The problem with “We speak English” versus “Hablamos español” is, as noted above, one suggests exclusion (as in, we speak English and we don’t want you coming in if you don’t) and the other suggests inclusion (we can help you if you only speak Spanish.) Clearly that’s not necessarily the case, but as the big flap over the English-speaker bar a bit back shows, the exclusionary sense of “We speak English” is pretty obvious. Apparently folks got their hackles up before they understood the situation fully. Which is bad. But I can understand misinterpreting things that way. Equating two things and completely ignoring the context that makes “We speak English” and “Hablamos español” generally completely different messages is to play into the popular but misguided notion that as long as we hide our heads firmly enough in the sand, we won’t see any racism in society and therefore we can safely pretend it doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/24 "2005-11-15T08:54:21Z")
On a tangent, it really upsets me when shit like this goes down. For every faux outrage we get crammed down the pipeline, people become less and less likely to take cries of [del]“Wolf!”[/del] “Racism!” seriously. I remember a recent story, perhaps from Canada, of special ‘racism investigators’ who, get this, could _always_ find racism and _were never wrong_. Pretty neat, eh? And of course, we’ve got an advocacy agency which justifies their, well, trollish behavior by saying “It is what it is cuz we say so. So there.” Gah. ---
**Author:** ![Viscera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/258eb7/32.png) [@Viscera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Viscera)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/25 "2005-11-15T09:29:03Z")
When I took Spanish in high school, we discussed this. “Hablamos Espanol” doesn’t exactly mean “We speak Spanish”, but rather “Spanish is spoken (here)”, more of a heads-up to non-English speakers, that your business needs can be taken care of, and not to let their lack of fluent English stop them from being helped. Based on this context, I can see how “We speak English” could be negatively construed. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/26 "2005-11-15T09:32:15Z")
I’m not sure exactly where that implies that the gardener is caucasian or American, merely that he will speak English. I know one Iraqi doctor in Dublin who placed an advert for an Arabic speaking, muslim, live-in nanny. This was not because he was a bigot, but because he and his wife had problems finding a nanny who wouldn’t drink, smoke or eat bacon in his house and they had a bad experience with one nanny who had taken his children to mass without permission. They also wanted a nanny who could understand his two small children who, as yet, hadn’t learned much English. They ended up with a nice married, muslim couple from the Phillippines. Conversely, if one was attempting to raise your children through Irish, one would place an advert for an Irish-speaking nanny. Odds are this would be a big strong lass from Kerry or Donegal, but in theory it could be someone from any part of the world who had learned the language. Race and ethnicity are not the same as language, by definition therefore, this is not a racist advert. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/27 "2005-11-15T11:35:09Z")
Is there any chance that the gardener in question slipped fifty bucks to the reporter to do a story on his racism? I mean, the classified ad probably cost around a hundred dollars to run, and maybe a hundred people will read it. But now, how many people have seen him interviewed about his service on the local nightly news? Best advertising he could possibly get. Thanks, Hispanic Chamber of Commerce! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/28 "2005-11-15T12:00:51Z")
> [@Viscera](#): > > When I took Spanish in high school, we discussed this. “Hablamos Espanol” doesn’t exactly mean “We speak Spanish”, but rather “Spanish is spoken (here)”, more of a heads-up to non-English speakers, that your business needs can be taken care of, and not to let their lack of fluent English stop them from being helped. > > Based on this context, I can see how “We speak English” could be negatively construed. I’m perplexed at some of the mental gymnastics a person has to go through to read a discriminatory intent into a simple sentence. I guess some people just genuinely want to be offended. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/29 "2005-11-15T12:49:09Z")
> [@Viscera](#): > > When I took Spanish in high school, we discussed this. “Hablamos Espanol” doesn’t exactly mean “We speak Spanish”, but rather “Spanish is spoken (here)”, more of a heads-up to non-English speakers, that your business needs can be taken care of, and not to let their lack of fluent English stop them from being helped. > > Based on this context, I can see how “We speak English” could be negatively construed. I honestly think that “English is spoken here” would be more offense-causing and more exclusionary-sounding than even “We speak English”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/30 "2005-11-15T13:31:46Z")
The irony here is that some of the very people protesting that “We Speak English” is bigoted, are likely using low-cost gardening services employing Hispanic immigrants. In a number of areas gardening service workers are overwhelmingly immigrants exploited by low wages. I doubt too many of the protestors are concerned about their gardeners making a decent hourly rate. I enjoy perfect communication with my overworked, unsalaried gardener, mainly because it is me. Although we get into fights sometimes about letting the mulching slide until next weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/31 "2005-11-15T13:39:22Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > The problem with “We speak English” versus “Hablamos español” is, as noted above, one suggests exclusion (as in, we speak English and we don’t want you coming in if you don’t) and the other suggests inclusion (we can help you if you only speak Spanish.) Not you personally, **Excalibre** , but I think interpreting it this way says more about the interpreter than the statement itself. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/32 "2005-11-15T15:05:49Z")
> [@Viscera](#): > > When I took Spanish in high school, we discussed this. “Hablamos Espanol” doesn’t exactly mean “We speak Spanish”, but rather “Spanish is spoken (here)”, more of a heads-up to non-English speakers, that your business needs can be taken care of, and not to let their lack of fluent English stop them from being helped. > > Based on this context, I can see how “We speak English” could be negatively construed. Incorrect. “Spanish spoken (here)” would be “se habla Español,” which is also a common phrase in advertisements. “Hablamos Español” means, literally “we speak Spanish.” And yes, a lot of times people make a point of speaking English to communicate that they’re not Mexican, and yes, that’s racist code. OTOH, it’s idiotic to assume that it’s _inherently_ racist – it puts the cart before the horse. In this case, however, unless Joe and/or his employees also speak Spanish, I’d guess that he regards speaking English and NOT Spanish to be a better thing than the reverse, and that, if not exactly racist, still stinks a little. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/33 "2005-11-15T15:46:01Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > I’m not sure exactly where that implies that the gardener is caucasian or American, merely that he will speak English. \ Race and ethnicity are not the same as language, by definition therefore, this is not a racist advert. Yeah, this was my interpretation, that he was advertising the language and not gardeners of a certain ethnicity. But then, I live in an area without a large Hispanic population, where businesses don’t advertise their languages and a Spanish speaker is just as likely to be Anglo as Hispanic. (And bilingual at that; you won’t get far in Pittsburgh without knowing English.) So it might have been racist in California culture, but I don’t think so. The question is, does he only hire people who speak exclusively English? If he only requires that they have a working knowledge of English, that’s no different than an international business requiring that their workers know Japanese or that a teacher at a school with deaf students know ASL. If the workers don’t like it, I am sure there are services in the area which will hire exclusive Spanish speakers. I think the guarantee of an English-speaking workforce is a good selling point for the business, or would be for me. Maybe not for gardening, since that doesn’t take much communication and anyway I’m not too lazy to do my own gardening (if I had a garden, which I don’t), but I’d definitely want a babysitter who spoke English (either alone or in addition to other languages). But like I said I don’t live in CA so I don’t know if “Spanish” is a codeword for “dirty thieving Hispanics.” ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/34 "2005-11-15T16:15:29Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > I’m not sure exactly where that implies that the gardener is caucasian or American, merely that he will speak English. Great point. By assuming the ad placer is caucasian, aren’t they falling into racism themselves? As far as the grammer or the curtness of the statement, it’s a newspaper. You have to pay per word for ads. ---
**Author:** ![ImaginalDisc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e57/32.png) [@ImaginalDisc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ImaginalDisc)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/35 "2005-11-15T16:15:52Z")
I’m Cuban, I live in Miami, and I barely speak any english. If I ran a real estate business and put out an ad that included “we speak english”, could I be accused of being racist? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/36 "2005-11-15T16:25:09Z")
I’m in sales, so I view things from a sales perspective. I wouldn’t have placed that ad. What I would have said: “English and Spanish spoken.” ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/37 "2005-11-15T16:39:23Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m in sales, so I view things from a sales perspective. I wouldn’t have placed that ad. What I would have said: > > “English and Spanish spoken.” What if he does not speak Spanish? Was there something in the ad to suggest he does? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/38 "2005-11-15T16:51:12Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima …snip… So the reporter went the director of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and asked that very question. His enlightened reply? “Well, ‘We Speak English’ is racist, that’s why.” Well, I’ll be damned. It’ll makes sense now, you fucking idiot. [/QUOTE] Sheesh. This brings up so many different questions. A few are: 1. Why is there an _Hispanic_ Chamber of Commerce? The CofC is for everyone; why isn’t the creation of an Hispanic CofC racist? 2. Up until about 30 some-odd years ago, the majority of the people who came to this country learned to speak, read and write English. Why isn’t it considered racist for them to come here, refuse to learn the language of this country and demand that we learn to speak their language (especially when most of them are here illegally to start with)? 3. Why won’t our government get off its collective dead ass and officially declare English to be the national language? It would reduce government expenditure greatly because we wouldn’t have to print ballots in multiple languages, for example, and that massive failure called bilingual education would be flushed down the toilet where it properly belongs. Again…sheesh… ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/39 "2005-11-15T16:53:18Z")
You’re conflating two issues. Bilingual education has nothing to do with the rest of it, and is indeed a very good model for educating those who don’t speak English. Of course the goal is to track them into an English-only course. But having bilingual instructors is pretty much invaluable, especially in situations where the parents don’t speak English either. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/40 "2005-11-15T18:58:04Z")
Really want to be successful? Take a beginning Spanish course (with a lot gardening and landscaping words for vocabulary) so you can claim…“We _also_ speak Spanish.”…or…“We speak English _and_ Spanish.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089.md?page=3)