# So "We speak English" is racist, but "Hablamos Espanol" isn't? Uh huh then... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 15, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089 "2005-11-15T01:23:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/81 "2005-11-26T15:10:27Z")
> [@adhemar](#): > > I think the ad being in English should be a big enough hint that some one speaks English. No, I don’t think that’s logical at all. I’m sure there are many ads in English that produce workers who can’t speak the language. > [@](#): > > In fact what he is doing with saying “We speak English” is providing a contrast to his competors which he is implying don’t speak English. Yes, indeed it is. > [@](#): > > To list that as a benefit is racist. Why in the world is this racist? He is not pandering to some racist element, unless you think people who’d prefer to converse in their own language are essentially racist. > [@](#): > > The same with a Spanish ad saying "we speak Spanish. " It is all well and good for someone to smugly say we can’t know what the author meant by it but in fact we derive messages from context all of the time especially in advertising. The signs in the window of stores for instance; a sign that says “we speak Spanish” do we finish that with an “also” or with “only”? one is inclusive and not racist, the other is exclusive and racist. How do you tell? You ask the question “as opposed to what?” We have to assume that there is a reason for the verbiage of the sign as well as the ad. The author of the ad may very well have meant “We speak Spanish and English” or “We are multilingual” but that isn’t what he said. Maybe he does speak only English. So what? Why is it racist to point out this fact. Again, I allow that he is juxatposing this attribute against other contractors whose employees do NOT speak English. “Exclusive,” “inclusive,” what nonsense! He is stating a fact, pointing out an attribute that a customer might find attractive. He should not do so because that marks him as different than contractors who don’t possess this attribute? Um, that’s the point. Sorry, I still can see absolutely no offense here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/82 "2005-11-26T15:26:45Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Um, that’s the point. Sorry, I still can see absolutely no offense here. I agree that there’s no offense here, and I’m pretty freakin leftist. If he said, “We only speak English,” that’s also not offensive: all it does is tell people that this company has a certain limitation, that they’re not as good as a company that is bilingual. Let folks advertise what they want, as long as they’re not advertising something like, “We only hire white people,” or, “Latino customers not welcome.” Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/83 "2005-11-26T15:43:18Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > It’s been a while since I made a road trip through the South and Southwest, where some small, independent motels have signs reading “American owned.” The context there seems to imply “Our rooms are much cleaner than those curry-reeking rooms of motels owned by Indian immigrants.” If I saw such a sign at a factory, though, I would think “This isn’t owned by some multinational corporation.” If I saw such a sign at a gas station, I would think, “Too Proud to Clean the Toilets.” :dubious: This is what comes of spending too much time in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/84 "2005-11-26T21:49:56Z")
> [@adhemar](#): > > I think the ad being in English should be a big enough hint that some one speaks English. In fact what he is doing with saying “We speak English” is providing a contrast to his competors which he is implying don’t speak English. To list that as a benefit is racist. The same with a Spanish ad saying "we speak Spanish. I don’t think he was “implying” that other gardening contractors don’t speak english. I believe he was out and out saying it. And from what those who live in that are saying, that is a true statement. I disagree that either a spanish gardener (or any other type contractor) OR an english one letting people know that they speak the language of their target customer base is being “racist”. This is no different than a company offering any other type of advantage. And really, if the answer for this company is that they do “only” speak english, it’s only an advantage regarding english speaking customers. > [@](#): > > " It is all well and good for someone to smugly say we can’t know what the author meant by it but in fact we derive messages from context all of the time especially in advertising. The signs in the window of stores for instance; a sign that says “we speak Spanish” do we finish that with an “also” or with “only”? one is inclusive and not racist, the other is exclusive and racist. How do you tell? You ask the question “as opposed to what?” We have to assume that there is a reason for the verbiage of the sign as well as the ad. The author of the ad may very well have meant “We speak Spanish and English” or “We are multilingual” but that isn’t what he said. I disagree. People are SO used to the signs, phone prompts and so on advertising “We Speak Spanish…” that it doesn’t really cross most people’s minds as being anything other than the literal meaning “we speak spanish”. That is if they even think twice about it. The problem in this case is that it’s something different and new in a manner of speaking. And as with anything positive that might be said by an American about America regarding his country of birth it’s automatically suspect as being somehow “racist”. It’s as if the automatic response to a positive remark about America, or our language, practices and so on, is to assume that one means that conversely anyone or anything else NOT possessing whatever it is that has been praised is bad. Lastly, as someone else has already said, some people just go about in life LOOKING for offense. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/85 "2005-11-27T00:10:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Lastly, as someone else has already said, some people just go about in life LOOKING for offense. And sometimes there really is offense there to be found. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/86 "2005-11-27T00:22:37Z")
Fortunately, in this case that does not seem to be true. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/87 "2005-11-27T00:33:52Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I can’t offer written cites but I can tell you three things: > > 1. My mother attended school in Taunton MA in the 60s-early 70s. When she was in elementary school, her school’s practice was to put the kids from Portugal in first grade, no matter how old they were, long enough to speak English. Most of them moved to their appropriate grades once they got the basics of English down. > > 2. I attended K-4th in Lawrence MA in the mid-80s. When I was in 3rd grade there were kids ay my school being taught classes in 12 other languages than English. English was another subject for them, not something they were exposed to all day long. (my school sucked in many ways, and hopefully this was a way it sucked uniquely, but I doubt it) > > 3. As part of my work now I see writing samples of children who are EAAL (English as an Additional Language; ESL isn’t considered an inclusive enough term these days :rolleyes: ) from various states. The students in question begin learning English immediately upon their arrival in the US. From what they write some lessons are taught in their native tongues for a short while if they speak no English at all. FTR, many kids here as short as 2-3 years write _exactly_ like native speakers their age- but often with somewhat better grammar! > > So after see-sawing from one extreme to another, it looks like a lot of places have reached a happy medium. I’ve only seen the EAAL tests for a handful of states, but I’m hopeful that its a widespread trend. It usually depends upon the age of the person when s/he comes to the States. English is just as hard to learn now as it was in the good ol’ days. I doubt that “In my grandfather’s time everyone learned English.” Many cities had enclaves where most communication was in German or Italian. And bilingual education can work if it’s done correctly. In some places it’s been successful. In others it’s been a disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/88 "2005-11-27T02:24:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Fortunately, in this case that does not seem to be true. I agree, and I’ve already written that there doesn’t appear to be any racism in this case. But some people seem to be going beyond that and are arguing that racism is never hiding behind the curtain. ---
**Author:** ![mrrealtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@mrrealtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrrealtime)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/89 "2005-11-27T02:58:09Z")
So the rich complain about not having “equal rights” with the poor? Hmm… ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/90 "2005-11-27T03:07:36Z")
> [@mrrealtime](#): > > So the rich complain about not having “equal rights” with the poor? Hmm… Y…que? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/91 "2005-11-27T10:30:16Z")
> [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > Just as a helpful hint, use _dime_ instead of _dígame_. _Dígame_ is formal – appropriate for use with the girl’s parents – whereas _dime_ is familiar. You’ll sound a little more natural, and she might take it better. I know that when I’m speaking Spanish with a close friend, and they swap to the formal forms, it’s because they’re either mad at or contemptuous of me at the moment, so she may misread your intention. Well, this depends. If the girl is from Central America, it would be strange to her. Most parents from CA use the formal register when talking to their children (though they often shift, as your friends do–and they have **three** different registers of address). Using informal register would be like a University professor at Berkeley calling his/her students “honey” or “dude.” It would make the instructor seem unprofessional. In the southern U.S., however, I could imagine a professor addressing a student as “honey” (although I admit that’s just pure speculation). Latin Americans tend to hold their instructors in much higher esteem than the typical U.S. student. (While, as an aside, rich Kuwatis are spoiled brats who veiw their teacher as a servant, even though we saved their sorry asses when Iraq invaded them.) But generally speaking, you’re probably right, **Bambi**. Register is a question of affect, but also of regionalism. If this girl is especially shy, informal might be the better way to address her. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/92 "2005-11-27T10:49:16Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Gasp! You’re from Bakersfield? :eek: Yay! I thought I was the only one suffering from this pain 😛 “Pain”? It’s the raisin capital of the world, isn’t it?..Or would that be Turloc? At least you don’t live in Turloc. I was hitch hiking around there and had to sleep in a grape field. I don’t recommend that; if you have the money, try to find a motel that smells like curry…mmm, curry. > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > And you didn’t miss much, it was a 3.0, fer cryin out loud. 3.0? And you bothered to feel it? That’s like a big truck driving by your house. Now Northridge and Loma Prieta–the only way I can describe them is like God just picked up the house in his hands and started to shake it around. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089/93 "2005-11-29T06:04:36Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > I agree, and I’ve already written that there doesn’t appear to be any racism in this case. But some people seem to be going beyond that and are arguing that racism is never hiding behind the curtain. Yes, but there don’t seem to be any of those in this thread. Unless I missed something all posters here are sticking to the case at hand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-speak-english-is-racist-but-hablamos-espanol-isnt-uh-huh-then/331089.md?page=4)