# So we watched Watchmen this weekend and we hated it (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020 "2011-11-15T16:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/281 "2011-11-17T17:50:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > While Adrian Veidt’s characterization was very, very weak, I’d have to say that I absolutely loved Jeffrey Dean Morgan as the Comedian and Jackie Earle Haley as Rorschach. They really brought their characters to life right off the page. It was really a career performance for Haley (yeah, okay, I haven’t seen _all_ his movies, but I did see _Breaking Away_!). I feel bad for him that the rest of the movie didn’t live up to what he did there. I have zero difficulty believing that Moocher grew up to be Rorschach. Especially if it turned out that Nancy got knocked up by someone else and tricked him into marrying her.. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/282 "2011-11-17T18:20:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He sums up The Comedian’s style as something like “Skillful feint, devastating uppercut, and little else,” and I think his exact words were “He won. In the short term.” Personally I can’t help detecting a significant amount of bitterness in Ozy’s voice there even though he purports to be above such things. He’s not a man who takes defeat well, particularly since he despised everything about The Comedian. He also strongly implies that The Comedian knew Ozy wasn’t really a villain and fought him just because he wanted a fight. I don’t think Ozy intentionally let The Comedian see what he was doing. It didn’t advance his plot in any way and increased the risk he would be exposed, even if that risk was marginal. I do think he took enormous pleasure in getting revenge on The Comedian by overwhelming him physically (while sustaining few or no injuries) and then killing him, and in knowing that The Comedian understood as well as Ozy himself that Ozy had beaten him completely. Nah. It is implied strongly that the Comedian let himself be killed by his attacker (you get the sense that maybe, however bloody was Veidt’s plan, the Comedian kind of understood it, and maybe realized that even in the above-morals business, he was seriously outclassed). I dont really see where Ozy is supposed to be holding himself in such high esteem that he would lose any energy carrying grudges. P.S:btw, when Veidt says “He won. In the short term.”, are we absolutely sure that the Comedian did indeed win that fight? It could also sound like Ozy letting himself be dominated, just to check what the Comedian has in store ("“Skillful feint, devastating uppercut, and little else,” sounds like someone spending more time studying the style of is opponent than countering it. IMO, it fits Veidt’s persona better. Ozy spent a longer time fighting against his own limits than he spent fighting others). And maybe, either winning at the end, or learning enough to beat the Comedian at a future time. Hence the “in he short term” thing, which doesnt make much sense if it’s not that (or if Veidt is not an utterly arrogant prick that’d find any excuse to justify his shortcomings). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/283 "2011-11-17T18:49:53Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Nah. It is implied strongly that the Comedian let himself be killed by his attacker (you get the sense that maybe, however bloody was Veidt’s plan, the Comedian kind of understood it, and maybe realized that even in the above-morals business, he was seriously outclassed). I think that’s another interpretation, and it’s not without merit. Since you’re obviously consulting the book, is it stated if he let Ozy into the apartment or not? I think it’s supposed to look like a break-in. > [@](#): > > P.S:btw, when Veidt says “He won. In the short term.”, are we absolutely sure that the Comedian did indeed win that fight? We only hear one side of it, and that’s from someone who chooses his words very carefully. I think Ozy was definitely evaluating his fighting style for future reference and would be careful about letting his opponent see too much, but that doesn’t mean he took a dive. > [@](#): > > And maybe, either winning at the end, or learning enough to beat the Comedian at a future time. Hence the “in he short term” thing, which doesnt make much sense if it’s not that (or if Veidt is not an utterly arrogant prick that’d find any excuse to justify his shortcomings). He has very few shortcomings and doesn’t fail at much of anything, so it’s hard to say how he would handle that stuff. But he has to be an exceptionally prideful man to do the things he does - although he leaves little room for self-delusion. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/284 "2011-11-17T19:19:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think that’s another interpretation, and it’s not without merit. Since you’re obviously consulting the book, is it stated if he let Ozy into the apartment or not? I think it’s supposed to look like a break-in. I’m not the guy you’re replying to, but (a) comic-book Veidt kicks in the door like movie Veidt, but (b) the flashback of Blake not fighting back at all is interspersed with trained detectives investigating the crime scene and deducing that Blake would have fought back – which is, presumably, in there to serve as a blinking neon sign that something else is going on: _But He Didn’t Fight Back! Why Didn’t He Fight Back? This Means Something!_ (In the movie, of course, Blake fights back like crazy: going for his gun and getting off multiple shots, throwing a blade that’s practically a meat cleaver, swinging for his opponent with punches that take a solid chunk out of the drywall; he’s outclassed, but he’s trying.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/285 "2011-11-17T19:33:27Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m not the guy you’re replying to, but (a) comic-book Veidt kicks in the door like movie Veidt Right, thanks. > [@](#): > > (b) the flashback of Blake not fighting back at all is interspersed with trained detectives investigating the crime scene and deducing that Blake would have fought back – which is, presumably, in there to serve as a blinking neon sign that something else is going on: _But He Didn’t Fight Back! Why Didn’t He Fight Back? This Means Something!_ Interesting point. I don’t remember exactly what the fight sequence looks like, but I think it’s reasonable to say that The Comedian’s heart isn’t in the fight. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/286 "2011-11-17T19:49:30Z")
The graphic novel is a bit ambiguous. I just looked at the sequence, and it doesn’t have any unambigous scenes of Blake fighting back. There are no panels of him even attempting to throw a punch. It could be taken that Blake is physically so thoroughly outclassed that he simply gets his ass kicked–or that he’s not fighting back. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/287 "2011-11-17T19:57:53Z")
I’ll admit that there’s no smoking gun on the “Ozymandias killed Comedian” idea. It’s a theory. But there were clues that added up to it. Unfortunately I don’t have the book handy so I can’t cite them. And I’ll admit there’s a lot of interpretation in it. Next we can argue if it really is Captain Metropolis and Hooded Justice in the restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/288 "2011-11-17T19:58:48Z")
Because of this thread (and seeing the movie Saturday night) I went ahead and purchased the graphic novel, the first one I ever owned. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/289 "2011-11-17T20:09:00Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Because of this thread (and seeing the movie Saturday night) I went ahead and purchased the graphic novel, the first one I ever owned. It’s the first one I ever read, myself. I don’t think you will be disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/290 "2011-11-17T20:11:00Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Because of this thread (and seeing the movie Saturday night) I went ahead and purchased the graphic novel, the first one I ever owned. then our work here is done? No, wait - we need for Annamika to read it & tell us what she thinks. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/291 "2011-11-17T20:12:22Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Because of this thread (and seeing the movie Saturday night) I went ahead and purchased the graphic novel, the first one I ever owned. Keep an eye out for the “arrowhead” blood smear on the Comedian’s badge. That shape recurs a _lot_. Heck, I’ve read the comic dozens of times and I’m not sure I’ve spotted them all. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/292 "2011-11-17T20:12:40Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > It’s the first one I ever read, myself. I don’t think you will be disappointed. _Watchmen_ wasn’t the first graphic novel I ever read, but it was the first one I closed after reading and immediately opened again and re-read. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/293 "2011-11-17T20:19:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Keep an eye out for the “arrowhead” blood smear on the Comedian’s badge. That shape recurs a _lot_. Heck, I’ve read the comic dozens of times and I’m not sure I’ve spotted them all. The Comedian IS a bloodstained smiley-face! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/294 "2011-11-17T20:21:28Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Because of this thread (and seeing the movie Saturday night) I went ahead and purchased the graphic novel, the first one I ever owned. And the cycle continues. I first heard of the thing on the SDMB and got my copy on a recommendation from **Czarcasm**. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/295 "2011-11-17T20:32:50Z")
> [@](#): > > The graphic novel is a bit ambiguous. I just looked at the sequence, and it doesn’t have any unambigous scenes of Blake fighting back. There are no panels of him even attempting to throw a punch. It could be taken that Blake is physically so thoroughly outclassed that he simply gets his ass kicked–or that he’s not fighting back. I think Lemur 866 hit it with the first option. As I recall the sequence, we see Adrian’s foot kicking open the door, then Blake takes a punch that drives him into the wall, then we see hands picking up a battered Blake, and then we see the Comedian thrown out the window. I don’t think it was his nature to throw a fight even if he was horrifed by Adrian’s plans; I think he got his ass kicked by a younger man. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/296 "2011-11-17T20:53:58Z")
Anyway, people who didn’t like the movie version might enjoy the Saturday morning cartoon version that came out in the 80s: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/YDDHHrt6l4w/hqdefault.jpg "Saturday Morning Watchmen") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/297 "2011-11-17T21:08:02Z")
> [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](#): > > I think Lemur 866 hit it with the first option. As I recall the sequence, we see Adrian’s foot kicking open the door, then Blake takes a punch that drives him into the wall, then we see hands picking up a battered Blake, and then we see the Comedian thrown out the window. We also see him get kicked while he’s down – to sync up, as per the running gag, with the same-panel commentary about taking the wind out of his sails. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/298 "2011-11-17T21:21:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think that’s another interpretation, and it’s not without merit. Since you’re obviously consulting the book, is it stated if he let Ozy into the apartment or not? I think it’s supposed to look like a break-in. No, I haven’t reread the book in more than a year (and must have read it only a handful of times anyway). And I’ll take the occasion to thank **Aanamika** for making me realize how vividly the story got stuck to my mind witout me realizing it. I’ll get to the basement and retrieve my treasured copy, though it’s the French translation I’ve got. Not that it matters here because I’m pretty convinced that it is said rather blankly by Veidt when he recalls the whole story at the very end. I think there’s a panel or two where we see the Comedian’s murder and Veidt comments on Blake not really fighting back, letting himself get killed. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/299 "2011-11-17T22:16:24Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Anyway, people who didn’t like the movie version might enjoy the Saturday morning cartoon version that came out in the 80s: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w&ob=av3e](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w&ob=av3e) The “Jon can give you cancer part,” was funny on so many different levels. Dr. Manhattan dramatically pointing at a gun toting thug, who then instantly dies of cancer, complete with intentional directed cancer giving sound effect just works so well. You have to wonder how one decides what noise best signifies intentionally giving a bad guy instantly deadly cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/300 "2011-11-17T23:18:27Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, yeah. Again, for me the comparison quote is what Doc says after teleporting a crowd away from the '77 protest before things got out of hand: _“The next day, I am reading in the paper of two people who suffered heart attacks upon suddenly finding themselves indoors. More would’ve suffered during a riot, I’m certain.”_ It’s not that he’s aware of an alternate existence; it’s just that he’s capable of mundanely reasoning about stuff like that and deciding that a smaller number of folks keeling over isn’t as bad as letting the anticipated violence play out. That only works if you assume that a nuclear confrontation was a high likelihood. Which may be the case, given that the existence of Dr Manhattan seems to have increased tensions rather than relieving them. Sure, he’s America’s ace in the hole to keep the Soviets in check, but they ramp up production to try to outmatch him, and Nixon et al then proceed to act more agressively in the world, thinking they are safe because of him. Ergo, tensions increase. Hmmm. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Another topic underlying the story is what has been mentioned here – an examination, a deconstruction of costumed superheroes. What kind of person really puts on a mask and “fights crime”? Does that really have any meaning? Aren’t these people just misfits, weirdos, and psychopaths? Alternatively, aren’t they just sideshows, shysters, and entertainers? And what is a “super-villain”? One of the big problems in the story is that costumed vigilantes had “arch-enemies” who didn’t really live up to the name. What’s the social utility of a costumed vigilante? Why do we admire them? What’s so great about Batman, anyway? If someone actually had superpowers, then maybe it would make sense for them to use them in some super way - some attempt to take on violence and corruption and crime, to do something to make the world safer and a better place. In a world without superpowers, the tools available to “costumed vigilantes” aren’t any better than the tools available to any other vigilante, so while there is _some_ sense of appreciation for a person that would step into a violent situation to protect the victims, there’s also an awareness that the tools to invervene largely consist of more violence. And one of the big risks of vigilantism is the loss of due process, the ability for one person’s decisions and feelings and possibly flawed perceptions to be the deciding factor. In the real world, mistakes happen. Part of the essence of due process is the attempt to prevent or mitigate mistakes. > [@](#): > > \*Doctor Manhattan – yes, he’s unsympathetic and unreachable. But he’s also an exploration of another kind of superhero. If a character like Rorschach is an examination of a mentally damaged costumed vigilante like Batman, then Doctor Manhattan is an examination of a person who really has acquired real super-human abilities. What does that do to a person? What is his perspective? What is his motivation? What is his duty to individual people or to humanity as a whole? Why the hell would Superman spend his life sitting around with a secret identity filing stories for the _Daily Planet_ and flirting with Lois Lane? \* Not to dispute any of your point, but the comparison of Dr Manhattan to Superman is really not very valid. Superman may have some amazing abilities that us normals can’t match, but ultimately Superman still experiences the world as a human. Mostly. Whereas Dr Manhattan’s abilities put him outside of our understanding of time. It’s the simultaneity of reality that puts him in a tizzy and makes him further and further removed from humanity. We get a much better feel for that in the comics with the Dr Manhattan segment, where he is reflecting on all the things happening and can’t keep time straight, it’s all simultaneous to him. So much that he doesn’t stop the Comedian from murdering the woman in Viet Nam because to him it has already happened. So Dr Manhattan’s experiences are vastly different from Superman’s in that respect. That’s why Superman can have a cover identity and spend time flirting with Lois and think about having a life, whereas Dr Manhattan just becomes dissociated from everything human. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I feel the key to the Comedian was that he was essentially no different than a criminal. He liked hurting other people. He didn’t become a masked vigilante because he wanted to help people. He wanted to beat up people but he was smart enough to realize that if he beat up criminals, he’d be seen as a hero and his violence would be allowed. Later he became a government operative and was committing crimes and killing people - but it was okay because he was doing it for the government. Yes, good observation. > [@Anaamika](#): > > Yes, I do, and I’m \*very \*glad I started this thread. It’s shown me while the movie may be deeply flawed in many ways, the story itself may not be - it remains to read the comic to see if I enjoy it or not. “Enjoy” may not be the best word. I read the GN a few months before the movie, primarily because the movie was coming, it was re-released, and someone in my book group brought it. I didn’t have background for it, am not really a comic reader. I didn’t know what to expect, just that it was supposed to be great. So I was put off by the first thing out of the gate, the narrator is going on with dark conservative bitching about how corrupt the world is - Rorschach going off on a rant. I was thrown by the tone, by the interruptions by the pirate story, and everything. It was only after reading a bit that I grasped what it was about, and in reflection and discussion it grows on me. > [@Lemur866](#): > > I think the movie really missed the mark in a lot of ways, though. Consider how Ozymandias is portrayed. In the movie he’s an icy cold elitist. You can tell right away that he’s a dick. But in the graphic novel, Ozy is warm. He’s affable. He’s friendly. He’s human. He cares about people. He doesn’t believe only the elite matter. Yes, he comes off as a self-important douche at times, like various real-life celebrities who spout off about world affairs. But he doesn’t have the glaring psychological problems that all the other characters have. He’s figured out that Bruce Wayne could do 100 times more good as Bruce Wayne billionaire industrialist than he does as Batman, the guy in a mask who punches the mentally ill in alleyways. Yes, Oxymandias doesn’t come off right in the film, so that is too much clueing he’s the villain. The comic is much better at making his role come out of left field. He’s a very popular celebrity, both from being the best (in behavior as much as skill) of the costumed vigilantes who gave it up willingly before the riots, and being the self-made industrialist, and athlete. There are Viedt action figures, and he puts on a public gymnastics performance. He’s the epitome of a good guy right up until the shoe drops. You don’t get that in the movie. > [@Andy\_L](#): > > One of my favorite insights about the book is that Big Figure shows so little fear of Rorschach when they meet in prison because Big Figure never had met Rorschach - BF had only met the relatively sane Kovacs dressed as Rorschach, before R had his real break with reality (the kidnapping case). Excellent point I had not observed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020.md?page=16)