# So we watched Watchmen this weekend and we hated it (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020 "2011-11-15T16:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/41 "2011-11-15T19:58:26Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Watchmen? Maybe they should have focused on one or two characters. I mean, Rosccharch was pretty messed up, but interesting. The others? One or two points of characterization does not generate interest. I’ve gotta say, you’re take on the movie matches up exactly with mine. You’re laying out my grievances word for word. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/42 "2011-11-15T20:01:15Z")
> [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](#): > > I’ve gotta say, you’re take on the movie matches up exactly with mine. You’re laying out my grievances word for word. Hello, sister of mine. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/43 "2011-11-15T20:02:17Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Bingo. The only other one who has any sort of personality is shy, diffident, but inwardly confident Nite Owl. The younger Silk Spectre has no personality, and anyway, it makes me very angry when a woman leaves one man to run immediately to the arms of another. What little characterization they gave me for Nite Owl made me feel bad for him - why should he accept being second place? > > The other heroes? I couldn’t even name them or pick them out of a lineup. The pretty, shiny boy? What were his motivations for detonating the nukes again? Killing 15 million people supposedly to ensure world peace? Why? We don’t know. We just know it works in the movie, and therefore, are supposed to accept it. > > Plus, I know he was not all he seemed from the get-go. And so he turns out to be not evil, quite, but…psychopathic. Cuz you can make whatever justifications you want, murdering 15 million people makes you a nut. He is the personification of the ultimate Randian Objectivist - someone who believes that there is an elite who have a bigger understanding - and are willing to make the hard choices for the Better Good. (The event - although different in the book - is meant to be effective by giving humanity a common enemy to bond against.) The book is a meta-commentary on various superhero tropes, each taken to their extremes, set within a mystery plot that moves things along. If you aren’t reasonably invested in superhero comics to understand the various tropes and how much Moore exquisitely twists them to comment on humanity, politics, power, etc., then I totally understand how this movie would not work for you. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/44 "2011-11-15T20:05:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re not supposed to sympathize with The Comedian. After all, the man was practically a fascist. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/45 "2011-11-15T20:06:04Z")
What a cursory, dismissive point of view you have. When you approach anything so uninvested and half-hearted “meh” is a pretty predictable reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/46 "2011-11-15T20:08:18Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > The other heroes? I couldn’t even name them or pick them out of a lineup. The pretty, shiny boy? What were his motivations for detonating the nukes again? Killing 15 million people supposedly to ensure world peace? Why? We don’t know. We just know it works in the movie, and therefore, are supposed to accept it. It actually did say – they were going to detonate bombs filled with Dr. Manhattan’s energy, and blame the attack on Dr. Manhattan. This would cause the world to hate him and band against him as a common enemy, causing world peace because now everyone is common allies. The movie never mentions whether it WORKS or not, just that that’s the PLAN, regardless of how stupid or smart it is. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/47 "2011-11-15T20:08:31Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > He is the personification of the ultimate Randian Objectivist - someone who believes that there is an elite who have a bigger understanding - and are willing to make the hard choices for the Better Good. > > (The event - although different in the book - is meant to be effective by giving humanity a common enemy to bond against.) > > The book is a meta-commentary on various superhero tropes, each taken to their extremes, set within a mystery plot that moves things along. If you aren’t reasonably invested in superhero comics to understand the various tropes and how much Moore exquisitely twists them to comment on humanity, politics, power, etc., then I totally understand how this movie would not work for you. Unfortunately not. BUT, I do think it _could_ have been extremely interesting. I don’t mind deconstructions, if well done, and I like seeing things twisted around 90 degrees. I agree that the medium did not do it justice. **Jragon** , perhaps I meant more the reasons why he would ever think such a thing would work. Regardless, it did work, in the movie anyway - at the end Nixon is allying with the Soviet Union to defend against Doctor Manhattan. Anyway, I thank you all for this fruitful discussion. I’m still not terribly fond of it, but it did add some dimensions to what was otherwise a flat movie. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/48 "2011-11-15T20:12:29Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Bingo. The only other one who has any sort of personality is shy, diffident, but inwardly confident Nite Owl. The younger Silk Spectre has no personality, and anyway, it makes me very angry when a woman leaves one man to run immediately to the arms of another. What little characterization they gave me for Nite Owl made me feel bad for him - why should he accept being second place? > > The other heroes? I couldn’t even name them or pick them out of a lineup. The pretty, shiny boy? What were his motivations for detonating the nukes again? Killing 15 million people supposedly to ensure world peace? Why? We don’t know. We just know it works in the movie, and therefore, are supposed to accept it. > > Plus, I know he was not all he seemed from the get-go. And so he turns out to be not evil, quite, but…psychopathic. Cuz you can make whatever justifications you want, murdering 15 million people makes you a nut. His paln is to use a huge, outside threat to make mankind untie against it _and it works_. (in the movie it is Dr. Manhattan, in the comic it is a fake alien attack) Yes, his plan is nuts, but noone who knows what really happened can do anything about it without destroying the good that it did. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/49 "2011-11-15T20:15:00Z")
I love both of you, Death of Rats, and Jragon, but your typos are making me \: “make mankind untie against it” And Jragon originally had “causing world piece” but he sneakily got in there and corrected it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/50 "2011-11-15T20:17:05Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > What a cursory, dismissive point of view you have. When you approach anything so uninvested and half-hearted “meh” is a pretty predictable reaction. I thought to ignore you at first, but I will post this one thing. Other people have posted to correct some of my misconceptions and even help me understand the larger world beyond _Watchmen_, and have given me a renewed interest in perhaps reading the comic book. They’ve tried to educate me, and I’ve listened, and found it interesting and a good discussion, as I said. Is your approach going to make me do the same? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/51 "2011-11-15T20:17:42Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > **Jragon** , perhaps I meant more the reasons why he would ever think such a thing would work. Regardless, it did work, in the movie anyway - at the end Nixon is allying with the Soviet Union to defend against Doctor Manhattan. At the end? Nothing ends, Anaamika. Nothing _ever_ ends. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/52 "2011-11-15T20:22:24Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > At the end? Nothing ends, Anaamika. Nothing _ever_ ends. Too true. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/53 "2011-11-15T20:26:54Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > His paln is to use a huge, outside threat to make mankind untie against it _and it works_ For a while, anyway. The ending of both the book and the movie suggests that the truth may well out. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/54 "2011-11-15T20:28:32Z")
If you do read the book, and you should, because its head and shoulders above the movie, read the Dark Knight Returns at the same time. They both have a similar element of the overdependence of the USA on a single, apparently all powerful individual who demonstrates himself to be eventually fallible. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/55 "2011-11-15T20:31:57Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I had heard some great things about this film, how it was a “real” superhero film No. It was billed as a “real” superhero comic. As a graphic novel it was revolutionary and a reaction to the happy-go-lucky comics of the 50s and 60s where heroes were one-dimensional and villains were diabolical and irrational. The movie on the other hand is largely a scene by scene recreation of that graphic novel. That is both a strength and a weakness. The material is dated by about 30 years and it wasn’t updated accordingly. The idea of the anti-hero and the complex/conflicted super hero is no longer revolutionary. The movie is great for fans of the graphic novel. The movie is visually stunning and it’s an achievement to so faithfully recreate a pop culture icon. All that said, the source material isn’t as good or as revered as say _Lord of the Rings_ and the adaptation wasn’t molded to suit the format or the times. I loved that it wasn’t repackaged to look like every other gritty super hero movie, I’ve seen _The Dark Knight_, I don’t need to see it again. I think it’s one of the most visually stunning movies I’ve ever seen and the soundtrack was absolutely flawless. But, I realize that the story simply isn’t really relevant any more and it had it’s flaws even when it was relevant. This is one of the many reasons that movies are different than books and have assets beyond just the story. This, like many others, is a better theater movie than a living room movie, especially if the volume is low, the sound system sucks and there are a dozen distractions around the house. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/56 "2011-11-15T20:35:15Z")
The movie does not faithfully recreate the graphic novel, any more than V for Vendetta did. And the source material is better than Lord of the Rings. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/57 "2011-11-15T20:36:34Z")
> [@villa](#): > > If you do read the book, and you should, because its head and shoulders above the movie, read the Dark Knight Returns at the same time. They both have a similar element of the overdependence of the USA on a single, apparently all powerful individual who demonstrates himself to be eventually fallible. Which I may, because I was disappointed with aspects of the Dark Knight movie, too, and I bet they are better explained in the novel. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/58 "2011-11-15T20:38:00Z")
The movie wasn’t based on Dark Knight Returns, I don’t think. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/59 "2011-11-15T20:39:19Z")
No, _The Dark Knight_ and _The Dark Knight Returns_ have nothing to do with each other save some shared words in their titles and being about the same fictional character. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020/60 "2011-11-15T20:41:03Z")
One think I don’t understand is why Dr. Manhattan didn’t kill Ozymandias at the end. Sure, he may have saved the world, but he did murder millions of people - and not only did he get away with it, he actually profited financially from it. Dr. Manhattan could have killed him with a wave of his hand, and should have. There was no reason the arrogant prick should have kept on living. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-we-watched-watchmen-this-weekend-and-we-hated-it-open-spoilers/603020.md?page=4)