# So were Penn and Teller right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 27, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257 "2003-01-27T16:20:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/21 "2003-01-30T02:11:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny Angel \* > \*\*Whoops. I got the crazy notion in my head to actually look it up, and apparently the deal was [like so.](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/826821/posts?page=55) > \*\* There’s a strange quotation at the end of that story: > [@](#): > > I know that Penn is a practicing atheist If you are an atheist, what is there to practice? Rituals of non-believing? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/22 "2003-01-30T02:48:51Z")
> [@](#): > > If you are an atheist, what is there to practice? Rituals of non-believing? That reminds me of a comedian who said that he wanted to see agnostic fundamentalists. People who don’t know and are willing to kill for it. ---
**Author:** ![psychomonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@psychomonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychomonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/23 "2003-01-31T03:53:28Z")
I find the responses on the page Johnny Angel linked to kind of amusing. > [@](#): > > Hmmmm…aren’t a lot of magicians closet homosexuals? If so, this is not all that surprising. Because all homosexuals dress as JC and get mock fellatio from midgets… > [@](#): > > Don’t worry, they’ll get fired all right. > > For Eternity Wow, and P&T’s humor is supposed to be sick? > [@](#): > > atheism is also a religion. No comment > [@](#): > > If Christians were so dangerous, universities would require freshmen to read about the Bible, and school children would have a day when they would dress up like disciples and serve Holy Communion so they would understand, tolerate and appreciate the diversity of other religions Can Anyone explain this one to me? Sorry if i offend anyone, I can understand the view those quoted are attempting to take, but im not sure i understand a word they say. -PSM ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/24 "2003-01-31T03:58:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cliffy \* > \*\*Dude – I saw Penn & Teller fire .357’s at each other live on stage and walk away alive. I believe they can do anything. > > –Cliffy \*\* I saw one of their shows where they did this too. P & T are very entertaining, IMO. I also can’t wait until tomorrow: Bullshit, episode 2. Bring on the poop baby! ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/25 "2003-01-31T06:05:04Z")
Penn and Teller rock. At the same time they will sometimes give away the tricks they do. I saw P&T on Letterman one night and they did the standard ‘Pick a card, any card’ trick in Times Square. Penn then explained how they did the trick. Teller had a woman pick a card while Penn did his usual schtick. After the woman picked the card and held it. Teller then fanned the rest of the cards. Teller and the woman were facing Penn. Anyway, when Teller fanned the cards a camera caught the cards and sent the feed up to a huge billboard screen in Times Square which Penn could see. Penn then told the woman which card she had picked. She was amazed. Penn then went on to say the trick required Teller to perform a perfect fan of the cards. I talked to some card sharks out here in Vegas and they said it took some practice but wasn’t very hard. The most amazing thing I have seen Penn and Teller do was the ‘Cups and Ball’ game. It’s the game where there are three upside down cups and one ball. The magician puts the ball under one cup then moves the cups around. The point is for the audience to figure out where the ball ended up. I saw P&T do the ‘Cups and Ball’ skit live. What made it truely amazing was that they did it with clear plastic cups. Even though I could see through the cups I couldn’t follow what they were doing. I will say that the JC-midget thing P&T did was really tasteless. In fact I started a thread about this a while ago. I love P&T and I am an atheist but their little skit was just not funny. It wasn’t a parody of Christians, it was an attack on Christians most sacred beliefs. Parody is ok, blatent attacks are not. They lack class. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Bongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9adbd/32.png) [@Winston\_Bongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/26 "2003-01-31T06:48:38Z")
Speaking of that quote from the Amazing Johnathan, apparently he thinks the WTC was actually destroyed by the First Baptist Church: > [@](#): > > “This was performance art,” said Johnathan, who moves to a new, open-ended run at the Flamingo on Saturday. “I know that Penn is a practicing atheist, and I agree with him that Christianity can be dangerous. Look at the Trade Center. That was done in the name of religion.” So, Christianity can be dangerous, as proven by the terrorist acts of fanatics from an entirely different religion that is opposed to Christianity. Ooookay. (And yeah, I do understand what he meant . . . _religion itself_ can breed fanaticism and violence, etc. etc. But focusing on Christianity in particular makes no sense in this instance.) And I second Sleestack’s comments about the Jesus skit. There’s a big difference between using parody to point out religious hypocrisy (Monty Python, for example) and just being mean-spirited and cruel. One can provoke thought while the other serves no purpose but to make the attacker feel superior. I’ve enjoyed P&T’s shows in the past, and I don’t give a rat’s ass what their personal religious views are, but when they do a skit like that they just show their own immaturity and disdain for people who don’t think like them. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/27 "2003-01-31T07:33:49Z")
I just wanted to comment about this: > [@](#): > > Amazing Johnathan said he was aware that a number of “gospel magicians” walked out and raised **cane**. [emphasis mine] I can’t decide whether that’s subtle magician humor or just bad editing. ---
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/28 "2003-01-31T13:21:06Z")
OK, I didn’t see the Penn and Teller thing either. Am I to assume that they “predicted” the correct winner and final score before the game? If so, shouldn’t there be some concern that the game was fixed? A football game, ideally, is beyond the control of everyone except for the players and coaches. A magician’s realm is obviously supposed to be things he can control. So could someone fill me in on what happened, please? ---
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/29 "2003-01-31T13:26:12Z")
I don’t think my question was clear, so I’ll try again… I completely understand that magicians like Penn and Teller utilize “plants” in the audience and can switch tubes or jars or papers at will to get the desired result. What I don’t get (assuming this all happened before the game) is how the plant, or the switcher, or whatever, was able to put the correct winner (OK, a 50-50 chance), score, and MVP into the planted tube, or jar, or whatever it was. (Obviously, I didn’t see the trick.) ---
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/30 "2003-01-31T13:26:12Z")
I don’t think my question was clear, so I’ll try again… I completely understand that magicians like Penn and Teller utilize “plants” in the audience and can switch tubes or jars or papers at will to get the desired result. We’ve all seen tricks like this, where someone in the audience participates. What I don’t get (assuming this all happened before the game) is how the plant, or the switcher, or whatever, was able to put the correct winner (OK, a 50-50 chance), score, and MVP into the planted tube, or jar, or whatever it was, before the game occurred. (Obviously, I didn’t see the trick.) ---
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/31 "2003-01-31T15:24:49Z")
Whoops. Someone just told me that he believes the prediction was opened after the game, not before. OK, please disregard my question, as the way I was imagining it involved opening the prediction before the game. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/32 "2003-01-31T15:55:41Z")
That would be a better trick! And if P&T were able to divine that THAT scrub would be MVP, we should just bow down to their power now! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TommyTutone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@TommyTutone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommyTutone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/33 "2003-01-31T16:52:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sleestak \* > \*\*Penn and Teller rock. At the same time they will sometimes give away the tricks they do. I saw P&T on Letterman one night and they did the standard ‘Pick a card, any card’ trick in Times Square. Penn then explained how they did the trick. > > Teller had a woman pick a card while Penn did his usual schtick. After the woman picked the card and held it. Teller then fanned the rest of the cards. Teller and the woman were facing Penn. Anyway, when Teller fanned the cards a camera caught the cards and sent the feed up to a huge billboard screen in Times Square which Penn could see. Penn then told the woman which card she had picked. She was amazed. Penn then went on to say the trick required Teller to perform a perfect fan of the cards. I talked to some card sharks out here in Vegas and they said it took some practice but wasn’t very hard. > > Slee \*\* I saw this trick when it was presented as well, and while elaborate (the trick was billed as “The World’s Most Expensive Card Trick”), I don’t think it worked quite as they said it did. I don’t know if you remember, but the card the woman chose was the three of clubs. Penn and Teller for a long time made this their ‘card of choice’, as can be seen in their video tape “Cruel Tricks for Dear Friends” (the news anchor reads the card) and their “How to Play With Your Food” (have a pizza delievered with the card pattern on it). There have been several other references which escape me at the moment. What I believe happened was that the woman was forced the three. Penn did his perfect fan and Teller ‘ran the computer’ which I don’t think was really ‘run’, but was instead just a series of graphics and special effects (I remember it looking very hokey for the time, being the computer junkie that I am). At some point, the signal is sent to the Times Square folks (I find it unlikely Teller had the ability to control the sign from where he was) who put up the preset message, card included. A GREAT trick, but I don’t think the fan or the computer had anything to do with it other than serve as misdirection. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/34 "2003-01-31T18:22:15Z")
Ah, another thread with people guessing how magic tricks are done. I know I’m repeating what I’ve said several times before in similar threads, but it bears repeating: - the people guessing how the tricks are done don’t know - the people who know won’t tell You can believe me or not, as you wish, but that’s the truth, and since the Boards are supposedly about combatting ignorance, rather than communicating it, I just thought I’d state the facts. Of course, if clueless speculation is to your taste, you’re very welcome to enjoy it. - Ian (one of the SDMB resident magicians) ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/35 "2003-01-31T19:47:54Z")
What about the Masked Magician? 🙂 I was at a David Copperfield performance once and he had a funny line: “If you’re in from out of town, welcome to Las Vegas. If you are really the Masked Magician…you can go to Hell.” ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/36 "2003-01-31T20:55:15Z")
P&T aren’t averse to telling how their tricks are done–in the current Vegas act, they expose two of their own tricks. But their big finale showstopper, where they “catch a bullet” in their teeth–they ain’t tellin’. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257/37 "2003-01-31T21:29:16Z")
**ianzin** wrote: > [@](#): > > Ah, another thread with people guessing how magic tricks are done. I know I’m repeating what I’ve said several times before in similar threads, but it bears repeating: > > - the people guessing how the tricks are done don’t know > - the people who know won’t tell Surely you’re not talking about LlamaPoet’s ripping the cover off of the Diamondvision trick, because I suggest you relax. The whole point of that gag was that they were making a big deal out of a trick you can find in most children’s books of magic. Plenty of people who know how that trick is done will tell. Forced card tricks are free giveaways because magicians know that most serious card tricks don’t require a force, and those that do are performed by people who can do more sophisticated forces than you can learn off of the back of the cereal box. Pen & Teller aren’t just magicians, they are metamagicians. They tell you how a trick works as a form of misdirection for a different trick, like their version of the cups and balls routine, in which they use clear cups. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-were-penn-and-teller-right/151257.md?page=1)