# So what comic book superheros/villains COULD Darth Vader beat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 23, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013 "2009-07-23T16:42:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/21 "2009-07-23T21:17:33Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Not heroes. Not even remotely. [Ahem.](http://www.toonopedia.com/purheart.htm) And I think Vader could take out Batroc.. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/22 "2009-07-24T03:54:21Z")
**Mtgman** said: > [@](#): > > Why throw a skull at a button to close the Rancor’s door when you could do it telekinetically? That’s one that specifically bothered me for a long time, but I finally justified it to myself. See, a Jedi only uses the Force for defense, not offense. So when Luke uses his lightsaber defensively, he can use the force to anticipate strikes and block them before they arrive. But when attacking, he swings it manually - with his arms. So with the door button, because he was using the door as a weapon, activating the button with the force would have been too direct, but throwing a rock/scull was acceptable. Okay, that may seem thin. But notice how Yoda was able to catch and deflect objects thrown at him, but didn’t throw things at Dooku. Whereas Vader shouldn’t be hampered by that limitation. **Mtgman** said: > [@](#): > > Here’s the thing. As Vader, he’s never shown being much of a badass in physical confrontations. … The youger Jedi, mostly from the prequels, show much more agility and flexibility. … Once he’s “more machine than man” he’s much diminished as a mano-a-mano fighter. He can take Luke because Luke is badly(and hurridly) trained. He hunted down the remaining Jedi and took them out with squads of troopers at his command, probably mainly employing his skills as a fighter pilot, which are formidable. I don’t know, can we assume Vader is not a badass just because he is not shown to do things? We aren’t shown him moving fast or having super agility (as Vader), but he never really has a need to, does he? Take the fights with Luke. In Empire, he’s toying with Luke, totally dominating Luke, and is trying to sway Luke’s feelings and opinions. He could have killed Luke at almost any point had that been his goal. The only reason Luke finally escapes is because he finds a way to get out of Vader’s blade range, and Vader is still trying to sweet talk him. Vader could still have done the throat crush, or thrown more things at him, or made him lose his grip. Hell, Vader might could have caught Luke as he started his fall, if he had thought about it. (There’s a new one I just thought up. Crap.) Second fight in Jedi, Luke has more oomph, but Vader is still largely trying to control and limit him, not dominate him. It’s only the final rage that Luke suddenly overpowers Vader. Would Vader and Kenobi’s battle in Star Wars really been better with Pogo Vader and Whirly-Kenobi? They were two experienced duelists sizing each other up to determine each other’s current skill level, then Kenobi makes the sacrifice move. They really didn’t have time to get going hard. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/23 "2009-07-24T07:02:22Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > A cyborg vs. Magneto? Yeah, there’s a match that’d turn out well. Almost as well as Vader vs Hulk: Annie: Give in to your anger. Feel it coursing through you Banner does so and flicks Vader into the next county with his finger. Hulk: Puny Robot Man. ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/24 "2009-07-24T08:42:48Z")
Batman, if he was… oh, wait, that’s another discussion and proof I’ve been here way, way too long. John Constantine has won one physical confrontation I can remember. Granted, it was with the ruler of Hell, but there were special circumstances. I would say that if there was a straight up brawl, Vader would win that one. If there was a buildup to it, he might still win, but he’d wind up regretting it in some horrible way that would make his previous suffering seem minor. Y’know, like everyone John meets. I would also back Vader against The Inferior Five, and Empowered. Squirrel Girl would kick his ass. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/25 "2009-07-24T09:12:55Z")
I think Vader would easily win in a fight against John Constantine, but Constantine would be too smart to get in a straight up fight with Vader. What about Mazikeen from The Sandman and Lucifer? It’s been a while since Lucifer and I haven’t read the whole series so I don’t have a good memory of her abilities, but she seems like someone Darth Vader could beat. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/26 "2009-07-24T14:14:14Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > That said, Vader’s lightsaber gets its killing power not from kinetic energy but from its laser cutting like properties. There’s nothing in the movies to suggest that a lightsaber needs to be swung with any power to accomplish wounds and death. For example, in Phantom Menance, Qui-Gon Jin slowly sinks his lightsaber into a massive vault-style door horizontally and it melts the whole damn thing. > > Perhaps the lightsaber is “hot” enough to destroy the Captain’s shield. > > And that is the geekiest thing I will type in 2009. Well, lightsabers do different things in different movies. In the sand skiff fight scene in RoTJ, Luke uses it to knock guards off the skiff into the Sarlacc, with no cutting involved. So there it’s a club. Of course, a few seconds later, he uses it to slice Boba Fett’s blaster in half, so it quickly turned back into a cutting implement. Video [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWN40sQAYYU&feature=related), go about 2:40 in. Nice Wilhelm scream as well. ---
**Author:** ![in\_hiding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c5a1d2/32.png) [@in\_hiding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/in_hiding)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/27 "2009-07-24T14:45:09Z")
Hm. I’d say Vader kills anybody from Spidey to Batman. Force choke and lift him in the air and hold the limbs, walk up to him, chop his head of with the lightsabre. Done. 😉 But really, It’s about how the magic (force, super power) interact. All the superheros have a higher resistance against basically anything bad, does that include the Force? Can Vader lift and hold a superhero? What I’d like to see is a fight between a Jedi using only his lightsabre and Uther Doul. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/28 "2009-07-24T15:18:19Z")
Does Robin the Boy Wonder count as a superhero? Ah, no, I guess not… ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/29 "2009-07-24T15:26:26Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > Does Robin the Boy Wonder count as a superhero? Of course he does. I was excepting civilians, not sidekicks. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/30 "2009-07-24T15:28:46Z")
I think he might have a shot at [Captain Canuck](http://www.sinkingship.ca/photos/captainCanuck_01.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![History\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b19c9b/32.png) [@History\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/History_Geek)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/31 "2009-07-24T17:16:50Z")
> [@johnspartan](#): > > There seems to be a general proximity limitation to the Force. That is to say, there’s nothing shown to imply you could be on one planet and influence the mind of someone millions of light years away (I’m thinking of the movies here, _yawn_ @ every single ancillary book ever written) I believe it’s not a distance limitation so much as line-of-sight. Vader Force-chokes a guy via video in Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/32 "2009-07-24T17:25:57Z")
> [@](#): > > That said, Vader’s lightsaber gets its killing power not from kinetic energy but from its laser cutting like properties. There’s nothing in the movies to suggest that a lightsaber needs to be swung with any power to accomplish wounds and death. For example, in Phantom Menance, Qui-Gon Jin slowly sinks his lightsaber into a massive vault-style door horizontally and it melts the whole damn thing. > > Perhaps the lightsaber is “hot” enough to destroy the Captain’s shield. First of all, the lightsabre doesn’t melt the entire door, just the part it’s in immediate contact with, and even that only slowly. Second, if it were possible to melt Captain America’s shield, someone would have done it by now. I can’t give cites, but I’m certain that he’s blocked assorted kinds of energy blasts with his shield at some point in the character’s history. Third, _all_ of the energy in a laser beam is kinetic energy. ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/33 "2009-07-24T17:33:52Z")
I’m pretty sure Vader could f\*\*\* up Solomon Grundy. Or Aquaman. Or Apache Chief, or them sissy little pink zeep and zook “form of an ice crystal” fruities. Damn, now I have an urge to go watch Superfriends. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/34 "2009-07-24T19:44:48Z")
Vader versus Juggernaut was mentioned above. Could Vader’s powers get by Juggernaut’s helmet? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/35 "2009-07-24T19:54:49Z")
Oliver Queen is toast. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/36 "2009-07-24T21:45:12Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > Vader versus Juggernaut was mentioned above. Could Vader’s powers get by Juggernaut’s helmet? The helmet withstands the much more powerful Prof. X, so I’d say no. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/37 "2009-07-25T04:02:53Z")
> [@3trew](#): > > I would also back Vader against The Inferior Five, and Empowered. Poor Empy. 🙂 Anyway—does the Force Choke only work on the windpipe, or could Vader crush other parts…like the aorta? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/38 "2009-07-25T12:43:16Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Poor Empy. 🙂 > > Anyway—does the Force Choke only work on the windpipe, or could Vader crush other parts…like the aorta? Depends. Is the Force Choke simply applied telekinesis or is it remotely controlling someone’s reflexes to induce a throat-closing spasm? ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/39 "2009-07-25T15:12:16Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Depends. Is the Force Choke simply applied telekinesis or is it remotely controlling someone’s reflexes to induce a throat-closing spasm? So clearly Darth Vader could theoretically induce orgasms in his victims instead. Hehe. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013/40 "2009-07-25T16:24:56Z")
Well, he certainly wouldn’t win against Matter-Eater Lad, because he can eat _anything_, including light sabers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-comic-book-superheros-villains-could-darth-vader-beat/504013.md?page=3)