# So what if Roe v. Wade is overturned? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2020, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653 "2020-09-27T07:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/142 "2020-10-24T18:44:36Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I took it as a sign that the local anti-abortion folks really wanted to stop white women from having abortions. If other colors had abortions that was fine with them. My wife worked for about a decade at Planned Parenthood. I’ve definitely seen what you’re talking about. There were two clinics in the district that were in parts of town that were either primarily black or Hispanic. I never saw the picketers _there_. But there’s another important piece to this puzzle: the _incessant_ reference to [Margaret Sanger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger) and her participation in the [eugenics movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics). They want to save white babies, _while_ painting pro-choice people as racists by the tenuous association. [Ignoring for the moment that Henry Ford having been a famously overt anti-Semite doesn’t make you a bigot for driving a new Mustang] ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/143 "2020-10-27T15:17:06Z")
Unsurprisingly, abortion will remain legal in the west coast and most of the northeast. Also several states that have anti abortion citizens will still have legal abortions due to state court decisions protecting abortion. But it’ll become illegal in most of the south and plains states. I think only 21 states protect abortion due to legislation or court decisions. > **[Abortion Laws by State - Center for Reproductive Rights](https://reproductiverights.org/maps/abortion-laws-by-state/)** > > The U.S. Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade, so it’s crucial to understand abortion laws by state, and where abortion is protected. Learn more now. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/144 "2021-03-19T13:36:09Z")
Bumped. > **[Supreme Court conservatives want to topple abortion rights -- but can't seem...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/19/politics/abortion-supreme-court-conservatives-thomas-roberts/index.html)** > > Conservative Supreme Court justices have demonstrated a desire to reverse prior decisions on abortion rights. The question, with Chief Justice John Roberts no longer the undisputed swing vote on abortion, is when and how far at least five justices... ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/145 "2021-03-19T14:10:27Z")
Overturning Roe v Wade is one way I can think of to ensure that the Democrats retain and even grow their majorities in both houses. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/146 "2021-03-19T15:07:42Z")
Yes, I suspect it would galvanize women voters in a lot of states - including Republicans - who have always assumed the protections of _Roe_ would be there for them. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/147 "2021-03-19T15:15:23Z")
_Roe v Wade_ was a premature decision. Society was still making up its mind about this issue when the Supreme Court ruled. As a result a whole lot of people were told to shut up. That made them dig in their heels. The trend before _Roe_ was toward the pro-choice side. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) The ruling fired up the Antis. So turning to the question before this house, if states were allowed to outlaw abortion, a lot of them would. This would fire up the choice people in a way nibbling at abortion has not done. There would be much yelling and screaming. But that is what political decision-making often is. If Roe is overturned, even the most pro-life state would have to allow abortion because a whole lot of the electorate demands it. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/148 "2021-03-19T15:31:10Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > If Roe is overturned, even the most pro-life state would have to allow abortion because a whole lot of the electorate demands it. This seems clearly false. Republican states are throwing obstacle after obstacle to abortion, to the point where zero or one clinic remains, and keep winning elections in those states. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/149 "2021-03-19T15:42:24Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Overturning Roe v Wade is one way I can think of to ensure that the Democrats retain and even grow their majorities in both houses 1. Allowing the crippling of women’s rights to _possibly_ benefit the Democratic Party is not a noble goal. 2. When coupled with the massive effort to restrict voting, the chances of it working in such a way is slim to none. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/150 "2021-03-19T15:44:28Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > This would fire up the choice people in a way nibbling at abortion has not done. There would be much yelling and screaming. The Right have yelling and screaming down to a science, and will be doing it much more effectively. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/151 "2021-03-19T16:30:18Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yes, I suspect it would galvanize women voters in a lot of states And men. > [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > The trend before _Roe_ was toward the pro-choice side. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) There were 6 states where abortion was legal before [Roe v Wade](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/when-abortion-was-only-legal-in-6-states/), so I would disagree with this assesment. > [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > So turning to the question before this house, if states were allowed to outlaw abortion, a lot of them would. This would fire up the choice people in a way nibbling at abortion has not done. There would be much yelling and screaming. There are states passing straight up bans _right now_ with the assumption that the new conservative SCOTUS will uphold them. It’s not like SCOTUS is going to go into session and come out saying, “We’ve revoked Roe v Wade, you can ban abortion now.” What it is is that states pass laws, and if someone feels that that law violates the constitution, they contest that law, hoping that SCOTUS eventually agrees with them. Many of the laws passed right now violate Roe v Wade, and are specifically an attempt to get that precedent overturned. > [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > If Roe is overturned, even the most pro-life state would have to allow abortion because a whole lot of the electorate demands it. States are not pro-choice or anti-abortion. The electorate is. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Allowing the crippling of women’s rights to _possibly_ benefit the Democratic Party is not a noble goal. I didn’t say that it was a goal. I said that it was a consequence if the Republicans manage to get their way. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > When coupled with the massive effort to restrict voting, the chances of it working in such a way is slim to none. They’ve been doing their best. But it seems that one of the few things that get people interested in exercising their suffrage is the threat of it being taken away. I don’t know that I take it as a given that their efforts will continue to be fruitful for them. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/152 "2021-03-20T01:47:48Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > States are not pro-choice or anti-abortion. The electorate is Once again, we seem to delight in tripping over words. Thank you for your reply. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/153 "2021-03-20T02:04:09Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > This seems clearly false. Republican states are throwing obstacle after obstacle to abortion, to the point where zero or one clinic remains, and keep winning elections in those states. Yes, when the legislature does silly, symbolic, acts people are fine with it. When the legislature begins to have an impact on people’s lives, I suppose things will change. How very like the filibuster in the Senate. As long as the Congress is prevented from passing anything, members can propose and speechify about all sorts of silly things. Once the way is clear for their actions to become law, they will be forced into moderation. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/154 "2021-03-20T11:42:41Z")
These aren’t silly symbolic acts. There are multiple states that lost all but one abortion clinic due to this legislation. There are states where you have to travel hundreds of miles, get checked, and then wait a day and come back. These are real impact to people’s lives, especially poor people. Why don’t you take a look at all of the obstacles thrown in the way of women trying to get an abortion in many states: [https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/counseling-and-waiting-periods-abortion](https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/counseling-and-waiting-periods-abortion) It’s like you’re posting from the 90s or something. Republican legislatures have _all but banned_ abortion in many states and forced the closing of most clinics in many states with bullshit requirements, all with zero effect on their electoral success. If you’re a poor person in Missouri, you have to travel to the one remaining clinic, visit, wait _72 hours_, get told in detail about the fetus, gestational age, told that the fetus can feel pain (which is clearly false early on), and on and on. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/155 "2021-03-20T12:12:03Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > It’s like you’re posting from the 90s or something. Republican legislatures have _all but banned_ abortion in many states and forced the closing of most clinics in many states with bullshit requirements, all with zero effect on their electoral success. Yes. Now let us see how we will punish them when they can go all the way. “May you get everything you want.” as the pseudo Chinese curse says. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/156 "2021-03-20T12:20:27Z")
I find it bizarre that you think that getting 95% or 99% to a ban is A-OK with the electorate, but that final few percent will make all the difference. However, this isn’t really subject to debate, since it’s all hypothetical. Anyway, this topic is pretty played out, so I’ll probably bow out. Here’s hoping the Supreme Court just throws it out to the states and doesn’t ban it completely! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/157 "2021-03-20T12:26:46Z")
I suppose we will see. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/158 "2021-03-21T01:49:29Z")
Usually a safe prediction in American politics. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/159 "2021-03-22T17:49:02Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > These aren’t silly symbolic acts. There are multiple states that lost all but one abortion clinic due to this legislation. There are states where you have to travel hundreds of miles, get checked, and then wait a day and come back. These are real impact to people’s lives, especially poor people. > > Why don’t you take a look at all of the obstacles thrown in the way of women trying to get an abortion in many states: [Counseling and Waiting Periods for Abortion | Guttmacher Institute](https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/counseling-and-waiting-periods-abortion) > > It’s like you’re posting from the 90s or something. Republican legislatures have _all but banned_ abortion in many states and forced the closing of most clinics in many states with bullshit requirements, all with zero effect on their electoral success. > > If you’re a poor person in Missouri, you have to travel to the one remaining clinic, visit, wait _72 hours_, get told in detail about the fetus, gestational age, told that the fetus can feel pain (which is clearly false early on), and on and on. Something I would mind is these access issues disproportionately affect minority and lower income women, demographics that do not vote Republican in particularly high numbers and are not part of the voting coalition Republicans rely on in any state in which they have power. Middle class / upper class women who get abortions, and who are sometimes Republican, likely will find reason to get upset if they are outright banned. Abortion is a complex issue with complex emotions involved. Lots of people who will never be in a position of needing one are totally fine with it, lots of people never in a position of needing one are totally against it. Lots of people have a certain set of feelings/emotions on abortion, but then they themselves have a fetus with serious issues and abortion suddenly appears to be a different sort of option to them. One of the things that undermined Ireland’s strict abortion ban, is even though the law provided for allowing abortions for the health of the mother, doctors frequently didn’t want to be the ones making that “guess” if a court would determine after the fact that the abortion was for a genuine medical need. So you had a few high profile cases of doctors unwilling to take the risk, and women with dangerous pregnancies being forced to carry them to term, and then subsequently dying. There’s a lot of nasty issues like this from a complete abortion ban that I think don’t get sensationalized or politicized much today where abortion is still accessible to most of the types of women who vote Republican. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/160 "2021-03-22T18:06:39Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > …where abortion is still accessible to most of the types of women who vote Republican. Unless there’s a nationwide ban, those middle and upper class women who vote Republican will have no problem getting on a plane for a vacation in NYC with side trip to the abortion clinic. So, I agree with you that a nationwide ban would be an issue for those Republican women who want to get one, but if it just goes back to the states? It’s not as hard for them to take time off from work, travel to where they’ll need to go, etc., so I disagree that it would push them to vote pro-choice if they aren’t already voting that way. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653/161 "2021-03-22T21:56:11Z")
But what the Fundamentalists want is outright zygotian personhood. Perhaps even gametean (every sperm is sacred…). They want national codification of prenatal “murder”, so those UMC lasses would not be able to just fly to NYC to have this thing taken care of. Some states have drafted laws to make it illegal to go to another state to have it taken care of, and the Fundies would be ecstatic if the law of the land allowed for prison time for getting a Swedish abortion. The biggest problem here is that SCotUS is insulated from the political process. If they hand down a ruling stifling abortion rights, that ruling could stand for decades, and no amount of voting would be enough to change it, because we will not gain Amendment-level majorities in Congress as long as Republicans continue to BS their way into office. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/921653.md?page=9)