# So what is the "final solution"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095 "2010-08-31T04:11:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/41 "2010-08-31T12:46:47Z")
Perhaps this thread could be moved to the Pit? Failing that, would it be possible to send it to St\*rmfront? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/42 "2010-08-31T12:49:36Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > And I’m saying that while hitler’s methods were wrong, he was responding to a real problem. > > And the UN was wrong. You don’t think the UN can make a mistake? How many Arabs nations voted for Israel? Doesn’t that tell you something? In your OP, you defined that problem as “an ethnic group that does not fit in”. What evidence do you have that Jews did not fit in in European countries? Here is the voting record of the UN resolution: > [@](#): > > In favour: 33 > > Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussian S.S.R., Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxemburg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, Ukrainian S.S.R., Union of South Africa, U.S.A., U.S.S.R., Uruguay, Venezuela. > > Against: 13 > > Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen. > > Abstained: 10 > > Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia. You are correct, no Arab countries appear to have voted for it. That tells me that no Arab countries appear to have voted for it. What does it tell you? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/43 "2010-08-31T12:58:30Z")
Just for laughs, I’ve started compiling a list of German Jewish physicists who left when the Nazis came to power. So far I have Albert Einstein, Lise Meitner and Hans Bethe, each of whom contributed significantly to the theory and/or development of nuclear weapons. I don’t know what “problem” Hitler was responding to (aside from the problem of needing scapegoats and such), but his solution happened to include exiling Jewish physicists at a time when physics in general was edging toward a massive leap, and in fact sealed Germany’s defeat in WW2, being just barely lucky enough to fall to conventional weapons before having its cities nuked. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/44 "2010-08-31T13:18:52Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > > [@The\_Facts](#): > > > > what do you do with an ethnic group that does not fit in but does not have a homeland? > > Good point; what should we do with the rednecks? People with ignorant, bigoted views such as yours should probably avoid them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/45 "2010-08-31T13:23:22Z")
The OP believes eliminating one set of people would result in peace. But what if that set of people were on your side? Peace would still be achieved. Oh, you don’t like it when we talk about genocide for your team? Maybe you should reconsider using the final solution, then. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/46 "2010-08-31T13:24:54Z")
It does strike me as kind of odd to claim that Jews don’t “fit in”. The history of Europe has them fitting in just fine when they weren’t being pogrommed or massacred or exiled or whatnot when the non-Jewish local power structures found it convenient. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/47 "2010-08-31T13:36:57Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > Um, excuse me, number one, I’ve been told there are supposed to be no personal attacks. Yeah, well go cry to the Mods. I can’t speak for the rest of the board, but personally I don’t feel a need to legitimize every bigoted ignoramous who posts here by debating with them as if they have presented an intelligent topic. Your question basically amounts to “where should we build the next Jewish ghettos?” Combined with your references to Nazi buzzwords like “final solution”, you reveal yourself to be an anti-semite. In case you are merely an idiot (conditions that are not mutually exclusive) I will explain to you why your statements would be construed as offensive. Israel and the Jewish people have just as much right to exist as everyone else. No one has the right to tell them where they should or should not live just because some people find it “inconvenient”. And good luck making Israel move anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/48 "2010-08-31T13:36:57Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > > [@chacoguy](#): > > > > Good point; what should we do with the rednecks? > > Scotland isn’t a homeland? ANGUS MALCOLM FOXWORTHY: If your regiment has ever taken a vote on whether to repair or replace the condom, you might be a Scot. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/49 "2010-08-31T13:50:46Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > Secondly, “my kind” is people who DON’T hate and who everyone want to live in peace. There’s no peace in the middle east because a bunch of neo-con warmongers decided they’d displace a bunch of Muslims. I am wondering how we can fix that historical error. Theodore Herzl was a neoconservative? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/50 "2010-08-31T14:06:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Isreal was created with good intentions: to give the Jewish people a homeland, so that the holocaust wouldn’t happen again. No, it wasn’t. The process of having an independent Jewish state in what is today modern day Israel started before WWII…it started before WWI for that matter. Have you, perhaps, thought of trying to read a history book on the subject? > [@](#): > > But the problem was they put that homeland on a place someone else was already living in, and there is been nothing but war ever since. Um, no. Jews lived in the region, as well as Palestinians before the creation of Israel. More Jews moved to the region both before the war and after, but there were always Jews living there. > [@](#): > > It’s obvious now taht there will never be peace in the middle east so long as Isreal is there. What else can be done? It isn’t obvious at all. Israel is at peace with several of it’s neighbors, and it can be hoped that the more barbaric of their neighbors who feel that it’s right to launch random rocket attacks or stroll into shopping malls wearing explosive suits will, someday, realize that such savagery isn’t the path to getting what they want. Or, maybe all the crazy ones will kill themselves off. Peace happened in Ireland, so stranger things are possible. > [@](#): > > I thought the soviets had a better idea: they created a Jewish homeland in Siberia, where nobody was living. You THOUGHT? Do you have a CITE? Because what I remember is that the Soviets exiled a number of Jews to Siberian LABOR CAMPS…and would probably have been overjoyed to leave them there, laboring away. I don’t believe that it was ever the Soviets intentions, however, to GIVE them Siberia to be a separate homeland of their own. > [@](#): > > But all the Jews left there and went to Isreal instead. Ungrateful louts! I mean, why couldn’t they be grateful laboring away in Siberia, freezing 8 months of the year and dying of malaria the other 4?? Instead, they run off to Israel first chance they get! Where is the gratitude?? (This is by far one of the silliest things I’ve ever seen put forward here on the 'dope…and that’s really saying something) > [@](#): > > Couldn’t the west offer them incentives to go, like foreign aid? You seriously believe that if ‘the west’ stopped giving Israel foreign aid they would just dry up and blow away? :dubious: Do you think that if other countries stopped giving aid to the Palestinians (including ‘the west’) that THEY would similarly just dry up and blow away? If not, why not? If so, then why not just stop giving THEM aid and have them sort of just evaporate? Why would one be moral but not the other? > [@](#): > > Hell, if the USA just stopped sending them weapons, they’d have to go. Hell, if you knew one actual fact on this subject that would be one more than you’ve displayed so far… > [@](#): > > Hitler’s “final solution” was wrong, but it was a real problem: what do you do with an ethnic group that does not fit in but does not have a homeland? What I do is something like this…:rolleyes:…directed at someone who would make such a statement that shows both vast and towering ignorance, along with subtle hints of cherry and licorice (when not contaminated by bigotry and prejudice). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/51 "2010-08-31T14:09:52Z")
Everyone will have to learn to live together where they are. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/52 "2010-08-31T14:14:52Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > And I’m saying that while hitler’s methods were wrong, he was responding to a real problem. From what I can tell, the only “problem” Hitler was trying to fix was the problem that Jews exist in the world. If you consider that to be a “real problem”, well, there you go. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/53 "2010-08-31T14:19:34Z")
Yeah. Europe didn’t have a Jewish problem - the Jews had a Europe problem. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/54 "2010-08-31T14:34:18Z")
I don’t see how the **The Facts** expects to have any kind of constructive debate about this issue when he specifically invokes the Holocaust twice. And I don’t see the point in babysitting this in Great Debates. I’m sending this to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/55 "2010-08-31T14:37:40Z")
Thank you, **Marley**. Now we can call the OP a fucktard with impunity. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/56 "2010-08-31T14:40:51Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > You THOUGHT? Do you have a CITE? Because what I remember is that the Soviets exiled a number of Jews to Siberian LABOR CAMPS…and would probably have been overjoyed to leave them there, laboring away. I don’t believe that it was ever the Soviets intentions, however, to GIVE them Siberia to be a separate homeland of their own. He’s talking about the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, aka Birobidzhan, which is in Eastern Siberia, near the Chinese border. The whole area is pretty much swampland. Stalin had the bright idea of setting it up as the “true” Jewish national homeland, so Jews wouldn’t want to go to Palestine. The problem is, Jews didn’t want to go to Birobidzhan either. The city does have a very nice synagogue, though. And for the OP, before I forget, Jews were more assimilated in Germany before World War II than any other country in Europe, with the possible exceptions of England, Denmark, Finland, and the Netherlands. There wasn’t a “Jewish problem” for anyone except Hitler and his happy band of anti-Semites. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/57 "2010-08-31T14:46:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t see how the **The Facts** expects to have any kind of constructive debate about this issue when he specifically invokes the Holocaust twice. And I don’t see the point in babysitting this in Great Debates. I’m sending this to the Pit. Thank you, **Marley23**. **The Facts** , you are a disgusting neo-Nazi troll who should be fucked in the ass by six million foreskinned cocks until you shit kosher. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/58 "2010-08-31T14:54:32Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] He’s talking about the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, aka Birobidzhan, which is in Eastern Siberia, near the Chinese border. [/QUOTE] But it wouldn’t have been a separate Jewish home land…it was (and still is afaik) a Federal Subject of Russia, which means it was and is (presumably) under the authority of the Russian state. I have to admit that, while I’ve heard of the place, I didn’t know that Stalin tried to build it into a ‘Jewish Homeland’…though, considering it was Stalin it doesn’t surprise me. It also doesn’t surprise me (vast understatement) that all the Jews in the Soviet Union (let alone Europe) didn’t exactly flock to the place as their shinning new Homeland! Even leaving aside the fact that it would be under the control of the Soviets (and Stalin at the start), but, well, it’s not exactly choice land. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/59 "2010-08-31T15:00:09Z")
With wacky right-wingers (mostly of the quick-flameout variety, such as our “I’m a racist” guy), I find myself wondering if they’re a parody made up by a lefty. **The Facts** is the first lefty on this board who I’ve had the mirror suspicion about. But he probably IS just as useless as he seems. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095/60 "2010-08-31T15:08:27Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > To be fair **Alessan** , as far as anti-zionist rants go, the OP seems more misinformed than hateful. > [@The Facts](#): > > And I’m saying that while hitler’s methods were wrong, he was responding to a real problem. Uh, I think “hateful” has won out. Before someone leaps in with the ever-popular “Gee, a fellow can’t criticize Israel without being labeled an anti-Semite”, I think I’d respond similarly to a person who observed that racial tension in the U.S. will never be solved until blacks are shipped off to Africa and said that while the K.K.K. went about things in the wrong way, they were responding to a real problem. The establishment of Israel did not displace any inhabitants in the region. Displacement occurred after many of said inhabitants attacked Israel with the goal of destroying it. It’s a matter of history. You could look it up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-final-solution/552095.md?page=4)