# So what is the greatest nation in the world? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133 "2011-10-10T01:24:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/61 "2011-10-11T17:35:00Z")
In most lists of “best county” no matter how you want to quantify it, the U.S.A. barely cracks the top 10 if at all. I have nothing against the United States, but for people to come on here and actually say that the USA is the best country in the world is ridiculous and ill-informed. Google around. Scandinavian countries are highly ranked. Canada comes up, so does New Zealand, Australia, Japan, etc. You’re delusional if you think the USA belongs at the top of the list. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/62 "2011-10-11T17:38:38Z")
You are mentally adding “to live in” to the OP’s question. ---
**Author:** ![medicated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@medicated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medicated)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/63 "2011-10-11T17:51:29Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Do you think that if they had a choice, the people risking their life to get into Italy or Kenya would rather get into the USA, all other things being equal? Hard to say. I’m sure that most would rather go to the USA than Kenya, but I’m not at all sure that most would rather go to the USA than Italy. Part of the EU, after all. Many options open up if one can get in and stay in. I’ve been told by friends that in India and Pakistan, Canada and the UK are often seen as more attractive options than the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/64 "2011-10-11T17:52:29Z")
Great is not the same as good. The Roman empire was great, and it wasn’t neccessarily a source of good in the world, or a very good place to live. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/65 "2011-10-11T17:54:14Z")
> [@studmuffin](#): > > The Scandic countries are too cold and the people are repressed, anal and their holier-that-thou Liberalism is practically a Religion. > > Japan is OK, they know how to treat their elderly citizens. > > The UK is going down the crapper. > I’d say America is No.1. You think the US _isn’t_ going down the crapper? One of the things I want most from my politicians at this point is developing policies to untie us from the US so you don’t take us down with you. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/66 "2011-10-11T17:55:27Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Have you ever been to Scandinavia? You sound like somebody who hasn’t. Well I’ve lived in Stockholm since 1999 and I’d say he’s closer than you’d imagine. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/67 "2011-10-11T18:54:58Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > You’re delusional if you think the USA belongs at the top of the list. You lookin’ to get nuked, Pal? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/68 "2011-10-11T20:33:47Z")
I’d say New Zealand…breathtaking scenery. The only thing that puts me off is the rampaging Orc armies. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/69 "2011-10-11T20:45:55Z")
I’m going with the US, not because it’s inherently better than some of the other nations mentioned, but because it is so much larger. You want to nominate Luxembourg? Lovely, they have improved the lives of 500,000 people. The United States has 300,000,000. Providing a stable government with good economic opportunities and quality of life for that many people, is a big accomplishment. I also found this, the [Human Development Index](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index) and was thoroughly surprised by the USA’s 4th place finish. BTW, NZ came in #3. Australia #2 and Norway #1 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/70 "2011-10-11T21:10:09Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > With these criteria in mind, I would make the case that Russia is the greatest nation in the world today. So where in Russia are you from? ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/71 "2011-10-11T21:53:58Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > In most lists of “best county” no matter how you want to quantify it, the U.S.A. barely cracks the top 10 if at all. I have nothing against the United States, but for people to come on here and actually say that the USA is the best country in the world is ridiculous and ill-informed. > > Google around. Scandinavian countries are highly ranked. Canada comes up, so does New Zealand, Australia, Japan, etc. > > You’re delusional if you think the USA belongs at the top of the list. And yet, far more people from the countries you’ve mentioned want to relocate to the US, than vice versa. Why would that be? I can’t walk a block in New York without tripping over someone living here from one of the countries on your list. People who immigrate to Canada only do so when they’ve unsuccessfully exhausted every means to try to get to the US first. Are they all delusional too? I, for one, really believe that the US is sinking fast. Unfortunately, a large portion of our population has eschewed education, science and enlightenment in lieu of willful ignorance. But not large enough to overtake the country…yet. The wisdom of the crowds still prevails, and it’s telling them to come to America. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/72 "2011-10-11T21:58:35Z")
The America-haters think (wish) an economic downturn is evidence of an irreversible decline. Please. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/73 "2011-10-11T22:08:02Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > And yet, far more people from the countries you’ve mentioned want to relocate to the US, than vice versa. > > I, for one, really believe that the US is sinking fast. Unfortunately, a large portion of our population has eschewed education, science and enlightenment in lieu of willful ignorance. But not large enough to overtake the country…yet. Nicely said, and no matter what anyone thinks, America, for all it’s MANY faults, deficiencies and looming challenges is still the one single place in the world that everyone uses as a measuring stick (for good and ill) to gauge progress and prosperity. NO ONE says “Our judicial system is better than Russia’s!” or “We give more global aid per capita than Italy.” ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/74 "2011-10-11T22:19:54Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > People who immigrate to Canada only do so when they’ve unsuccessfully exhausted every means to try to get to the US first. That’s a broad assertion, and not what the following figures say. From the [Globe and Mail](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/well-educated-older-immigrants-prefer-canada-to-us-poll-finds/article1614074/), dated January 11, 2011: > [@](#): > > With age and wisdom, Canada looks better than the United States as a destination for potential immigrants, new research suggests. > > Jack Jedwab, executive director of the Association for Canadian Studies, and Susan Hardwick, a University of Oregon geographer, highlight an analysis done by Gallup researchers Neli Esipova, Julie Ray and Rajesh Srinivasan, who found that although Canada trails the United States as the most desirable global destination, the situation is reversed among those who are well-educated and slightly older. > > In the 148-country survey, Gallup found that 41 per cent of those aged 15-24 would choose to migrate to the U.S., compared with only 27 per cent who chose Canada. But the older cohort, those 25-44, chose Canada over the U.S. 48 per cent to 40 per cent. > > Among those who have completed only elementary education, the U.S. outstrips Canada by a considerable margin. But among those who have completed secondary education, Canada leads by 59 per cent to 51 per cent. It seems to me that the above figures suggest that while the US is the place some choose first, Canada is the place others choose first. Regardless, the figures do not suggest (to me, anyway) that immigrants choose Canada only after exhausting every means to get to the US, as you state. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/75 "2011-10-11T22:37:49Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > That’s a broad assertion, and not what the following figures say. From the [Globe and Mail](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/well-educated-older-immigrants-prefer-canada-to-us-poll-finds/article1614074/), dated January 11, 2011: > > It seems to me that the above figures suggest that while the US is the place some choose first, Canada is the place others choose first. Regardless, the figures do not suggest (to me, anyway) that immigrants choose Canada only after exhausting every means to get to the US, as you state. Your article only confirms that far more people want to move to the US versus Canada. Unless you believe that the elderly and well-educated who want to leave their countries outnumber the others. And that’s an article based on a cherry-picked study by a Canadian newspaper! I’m sure it wouldn’t be too hard to find real numbers in immigration waiting lists, acception/rejection rates, etc. for the various countries in contention. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/76 "2011-10-12T00:11:09Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Your article only confirms that far more people want to move to the US versus Canada. Could you explain your reasoning here? I’m afraid I cannot see “far more” in this scenario. Fourteen percent more for the younger age bracket is not what I consider to be “far more,” and there is no accounting for the 32% who specified neither the US or Canada. At any rate, while you may be correct that more (both in raw numbers and in percentages) want to move to the US, you did assert upthread that “People who immigrate to Canada only do so when they’ve unsuccessfully exhausted every means to try to get to the US first.” Given these figures and what they indicate about immigrant’s preferences (namely, the US is not the first choice of some immigrants to Canada), do you still stand by that assertion? > [@](#): > > Unless you believe that the elderly… Those in the 25-44 age bracket are elderly? Nothing was said about those over 45. > [@](#): > > And that’s an article based on a cherry-picked study by a Canadian newspaper! If you look more closely, you’ll see that the study was not commissioned by the newspaper. And one of the people involved in the study was from the University of Oregon. Last I heard, Oregon was one of the United States. We do not know which country the Gallup researchers were from; I do not think we can automatically assume they were Canadian. They may have been American, for all the information the newspaper item gives us about them. > [@](#): > > I’m sure it wouldn’t be too hard to find real numbers in immigration waiting lists, acception/rejection rates, etc. for the various countries in contention. No, it would probably be very easy. [Here](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/facts2010/permanent/10.asp#countries), for example, is a list of the total number of immigrants Canada took in between the years 2001 and 2010, provided by the Canadian government itself. It does not specify how many came, however, because they had been rejected by the US; but it does indicate the various countries in contention. (And surprisingly, the USA is fifth on the list of countries from which immigrants come to Canada–whodathunkit?) There are plenty more immigration statistics at that site; and there are undoubtedly similar charts and tables, and more, from the American government. But I’d still like to see you provide some sort of reputable data or study supporting your assertion that “People who immigrate to Canada only do so when they’ve unsuccessfully exhausted every means to try to get to the US first.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/77 "2011-10-12T00:38:30Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > People who immigrate to Canada only do so when they’ve unsuccessfully exhausted every means to try to get to the US first. This assertion is simply ignorant. You may wish to educate yourself on the composition of Canadian immigration before commenting on it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/78 "2011-10-12T00:42:07Z")
Calm down, y’all. The Canadians were going to let the USA use nuclear air to air missiles to shoot down Russian bombers over Canada during the Cold War. They’re cool. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/79 "2011-10-12T00:47:03Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Agreed. Inside my chest beats the beige heart of neutrality. Inside these veins courses the mauve blood of political disinterest. “What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?” ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133/80 "2011-10-12T01:03:59Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > “What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?” If I don’t make it, tell my wife I said… hello." =) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-is-the-greatest-nation-in-the-world/599133.md?page=5)