# So what kind of personality is attracted to the modern military? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296 "2012-09-30T07:40:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/41 "2012-10-01T22:08:01Z")
I joined Army in 1992 primarily for a secure job and some lifestyle stability to help with some barely concealed mental instability. It worked like a charm. Got handed a career path with some guarantees in exchange for hard work (the like of which was not forthcoming in the real world), did my part, Army did its part and all was very, very groovy for the duration of my enlistment. My only regret (sometimes) is making a personal decision to pursue married life with kids over what I was doing in the military and not reenlisting. Granted, you can have a wife & kids while you serve, but it’s far easier to pick one or the other. 16 years later I still say it was the best job I ever had. Even though it was one of the most restrictive and worst paying, it was challenging, rewarding in a way that my nice white collar job can never be, and thoroughly enjoyable. > [@Robert163](#): > > people who join the military are people who want to kill and oppress other people and be able to blame it on “following orders” That’s some pretty screwed up thinking right there. Probably belongs in a different thread where it can be given the attention it deserves. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/42 "2012-10-01T22:15:10Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Your flippant attitude only illustrates the point that I’m making. You have the luxury of being coy about it because no one has invaded your country, blown up your home or killed anyone you love. And it is very easy to be a pacifist when living in a country where others are willing to put their lives on the line for you. We could argue the merits of each war to the beginning of time. I would probably agree with you on many. But until such time as humans become gentle creatures do you really believe the US is better off with no military? I’m assuming you are from the US. It doesn’t say so in your profile and I didn’t go back through your 23 posts. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/43 "2012-10-01T22:15:45Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > You have the luxury of being coy about it because no one has invaded your country, blown up your home or killed anyone you love. I think you might be making an incorrect assumption, here. There are many families that have lost loved ones (brother/sister, father/mother, uncle/aunt, adult child) in Iraq or Afghanistan, and yet remain supportive of the military, or “patriotism” in general. You shouldn’t assume **Shagnasty** has not been touched by war in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/44 "2012-10-01T22:22:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > And it is very easy to be a pacifist when living in a country where others are willing to put their lives on the line for you. We could argue the merits of each war to the beginning of time. I would probably agree with you on many. But until such time as humans become gentle creatures do you really believe the US is better off with no military? I’m assuming you are from the US. It doesn’t say so in your profile and I didn’t go back through your 23 posts. yes, we need a military, but, that does not justify joining the military. if the military was tiny and actually needed people then maybe it would be morally appropriate to join. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/45 "2012-10-01T22:23:03Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I think you might be making an incorrect assumption, here. There are many families that have lost loved ones (brother/sister, father/mother, uncle/aunt, adult child) in Iraq or Afghanistan, and yet remain supportive of the military, or “patriotism” in general. > > You shouldn’t assume **Shagnasty** has not been touched by war in any way. I can make the assumption that he’s turning it into a joke ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/46 "2012-10-01T22:25:55Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I can make the assumption that he’s turning it into a joke I am going to assume that he is doing that because you are taking a somewhat hyperbolic tone. I think he is not treating a serious topic [war & killing] lightly. He is merely being dismissive of your points. You don’t agree? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/47 "2012-10-01T22:29:20Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I am going to assume that he is doing that because you are taking a somewhat hyperbolic tone. > > I think he is not treating a serious topic [war & killing] lightly. He is merely being dismissive of your points. > > You don’t agree? i’m being hyperbolic to make a point he is being hyperbolic to dismiss and evade my point ---
**Author:** ![green2gold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4bbf92/32.png) [@green2gold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/green2gold)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/48 "2012-10-01T22:42:49Z")
My older brother joined because, while he was smart, he was undisciplined in high school and had poor grades but because of his ASVAB scores he was able to join the navy and become a navy nuke. It was a six year commitment but his GI bill was generous. In the end he became burned out by being surrounded by idiots and evangelicals. However, it payed for his bachelors degree and the VA bill let him and his wife buy their dream home. It will also pay for his masters degree. I did Army ROTC in college because they paid for school. Being surrounded by officers meant I wasn’t surrounded by idiots but I was still surrounded by evangelicals. No thank-you. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/49 "2012-10-01T22:49:51Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > I want to know what the support:kill ratio is. Like, if you’re on the front lines you get one point for every one person you kill. But what if you’re support? Is it a 1:1? 3:7? > > If it’s a 1:1 I don’t think it’s fair to the front lines, as I’m sure they want to keep all the kill points to themselves. But support is integral to the military, so they shouldn’t have to suffer from lack of kills. > > Tricky. That problem has already been solved and you know it. Were you suppressing them during or shortly before their demise? You get 50% of a kill. Did you hit them shortly before their demise? Then you get whatever percentage you took off them. Note, this does mean that you can get more by suppressing and injuring an enemy more than 50% than by just killing him, which doesn’t sound right somehow. Medical and supply personnel get 20% of a kill for every act of healing or supplying. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/50 "2012-10-01T22:58:01Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > people who join the military are people who want to kill and oppress other people and be able to blame it on “following orders” What do you mean by blaming it on others? Killing and oppressing other people is its own reward. I myself cut 3 notches into every new belt I buy. It’s a great conversation piece. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/51 "2012-10-01T23:47:41Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > yes, we need a military, but, that does not justify joining the military. if the military was tiny and actually needed people then maybe it would be morally appropriate to join. I hope you understand that makes no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/52 "2012-10-01T23:55:21Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I can make the assumption that he’s turning it into a joke That is because your point is one. No, I have never worried about people invading the U.S. and killing my family (except for a brief period when Red Dawn came out). You know the reason why? Because, we have the most powerful military ever assembled. It is quite possible to make good arguments against specific wars or actions and argue that the military should be for true domestic defense only but you didn’t do that. I don’t really think you believe the U.S. should have no military whatsoever. Only a loon would believe that. You got the dismissive reaction that you did because you gave a blanket indictment against all military people regardless of their motivations. This board is a lot smarter than that and chances are you are too. You can always come up with a real position and start a thread in Great Debates about it. If it is well-written and a whole lot more nuanced, you will probably find some people that agree with you that aren’t just the equivalent of cartoon characters. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/53 "2012-10-01T23:57:39Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I hope you understand that makes no sense at all. no. we need a police force. but if the police force is corrupt joining it is still the wrong thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/54 "2012-10-02T00:00:16Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is because your point is one. No, I have never worried about people invading the U.S. and killing my family (except for a brief period when Red Dawn came out). You know the reason why? Because, we have the most powerful military ever assembled. > > It is quite possible to make good arguments against specific wars or actions and argue that the military should be for true domestic defense only but you didn’t do that. I don’t really think you believe the U.S. should have no military whatsoever. Only a loon would believe that. > > You got the dismissive reaction that you did because you gave a blanket indictment against all military people regardless of their motivations. This board is a lot smarter than that and chances are you are too. You can always come up with a real position and start a thread in Great Debates about it. If it is well-written and a whole lot more nuanced, you will probably find some people that agree with you that aren’t just the equivalent of cartoon characters. ah but it merits no debate! all these “qualifications” that you make are just easy excuses. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/55 "2012-10-02T00:09:21Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > ah but it merits no debate! all these “qualifications” that you make are just easy excuses. Qualifications? All you have to do is use capital letters and write in paragraph form with logical points. That is a whole lot more reasonable than launching an attack on the moral fiber of every single military member both past and present. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/56 "2012-10-02T00:15:16Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Qualifications? All you have to do is use capital letters and write in paragraph form with logical points. That is a whole lot more reasonable than launching an attack on the moral fiber of every single military member. They have no moral fiber to attack. According to this thread reasons for joining th military are: 1- I’m poor and need money 2- A college education 3- I love America!!! well, you could join the police department, the fire department, go to nursing school, teach, etc etc etc. Every single “reason” people give for joining the military can be fulfilled some other way. Sure, it’s a lot harder to actually go look for a job than it is to take the 15 minutes it takes to sign up at the recruiters office, but maybe just maybe they could of made that effort. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/57 "2012-10-02T00:25:58Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > They have no moral fiber to attack. According to this thread reasons for joining th military are: > > 1- I’m poor and need money > 2- A college education > 3- I love America!!! > > well, you could join the police department, the fire department, go to nursing school, teach, etc etc etc. Every single “reason” people give for joining the military can be fulfilled some other way. Sure, it’s a lot harder to actually go look for a job than it is to take the 15 minutes it takes to sign up at the recruiters office, but maybe just maybe they could of made that effort. No, you left out the officers for one thing. Like I said earlier, my younger brother was a police officer turned Coast Guard Officer. It was an extremely hard process to go through and they only take a very select few that way but he made it. The Coast Guard is military but they don’t fight (much) in foreign wars. It is mainly coastal law enforcement plus search and rescue operations. What do you think is immoral about that? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/58 "2012-10-02T00:30:28Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > They have no moral fiber to attack. According to this thread reasons for joining th military are: > > 1- I’m poor and need money > 2- A college education > 3- I love America!!! > > well, you could join the police department, the fire department, go to nursing school, teach, etc etc etc. Every single “reason” people give for joining the military can be fulfilled some other way. Sure, it’s a lot harder to actually go look for a job than it is to take the 15 minutes it takes to sign up at the recruiters office, but maybe just maybe they could of made that effort. Now you are just being ignorant. Either purposely or well through ignorance. Over 75% of the recruiting age population does not qualify for military service. It is not as easy as you think. And guess what? I’m a police officer and in the Army. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/59 "2012-10-02T00:35:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Now you are just being ignorant. Either purposely or well through ignorance. Over 75% of the recruiting age population does not qualify for military service. It is not as easy as you think. And guess what? I’m a police officer and in the Army. And you’ve never stopped to think about the morality of what you’re doing? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/60 "2012-10-02T00:36:38Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > No, you left out the officers for one thing. Like I said earlier, my younger brother was a police officer turned Coast Guard Officer. It was an extremely hard process to go through and they only take a very select few that way but he made it. The Coast Guard is military but they don’t fight (much) in foreign wars. It is mainly coastal law enforcement plus search and rescue operations. What do you think is immoral about that? I have no problem with the coast gaurd [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296.md?page=4)