# So what kind of personality is attracted to the modern military? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296 "2012-09-30T07:40:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/81 "2012-10-02T02:27:57Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I’m quite sure we have a different version of the word “good”. mine includes not invading countries that never attacked us. So would you say that constitutes a primary criteria for going to war? Not being attacked? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/82 "2012-10-02T02:32:40Z")
Robert – okay, but what about people who take military contracts, like DARPA grants? What about people who get employed as Los Alamos – which is nuclear testing, yes, but has a very large contingent dedicated to energy grid optimization? Are people who do non-violent research for things that happen to be funded by or directly employed by the DOD bad? ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/83 "2012-10-02T02:36:05Z")
You know, I could just post a simple list of every major U.S. military action for oh, say past 200 years or so and let you rate them as justified or not in your opinion and go from there… ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/84 "2012-10-02T02:37:07Z")
Don’t forget the military technology transfer part. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/85 "2012-10-02T03:02:16Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Robert – okay, but what about people who take military contracts, like DARPA grants? What about people who get employed as Los Alamos – which is nuclear testing, yes, but has a very large contingent dedicated to energy grid optimization? Are people who do non-violent research for things that happen to be funded by or directly employed by the DOD bad? most defiantly ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/86 "2012-10-02T03:06:21Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > You know, I could just post a simple list of every major U.S. military action for oh, say past 200 years or so and let you rate them as justified or not in your opinion and go from there… Revolution - not justified 1812 - justified mexican american war - not justified phillipines - not justified WWI - not justified WWII - justified korea - not justified vietnam - not justified gulf 1 - not justified afghanistan - justified gulf 2 - not justified ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/87 "2012-10-02T03:33:07Z")
You forgot Grenada. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/88 "2012-10-02T03:49:32Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > **Littel Nemo** - I think Robert here serves as a perfect example to the type of liberal referenced earlier that does exist in the wild. Yeah, when you’re too liberal for this board, you’ve walked past the fringe and over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/89 "2012-10-02T03:56:19Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Revolution - not justified > 1812 - justified Surprised by this one. Most people would have called these two the other way. What criteria did you use? Here’s my picks: Revolution - justified War of 1812 - not justified Mexican-American War - not justified Civil War - justified Spanish-American War - not justified Philippines - not justified WWI - justified WWII - justified Korea - justified Vietnam - not justified Grenada - not justified Panama - justified Gulf 1 - justified Afghanistan - justified Gulf 2 - not justified ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/90 "2012-10-02T04:18:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Surprised by this one. Most people would have called these two the other way. What criteria did you use? > > Here’s my picks: > > Revolution - justified > War of 1812 - not justified > Mexican-American War - not justified > Civil War - justified > Spanish-American War - not justified > Philippines - not justified > WWI - justified > WWII - justified > Korea - justified > Vietnam - not justified > Grenada - not justified > Panama - justified > Gulf 1 - justified > Afghanistan - justified > Gulf 2 - not justified because the colonists had more freedom and paid less taxes than people living in england ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/91 "2012-10-02T05:08:04Z")
**Robert163** , the simple point is that most people disagree with you about the morality of US military actions. For someone who _does_ agree with you, you have more or less the right response: if all the military does is pointlessly invade countries and kill innocent babies, then yeah - you _should_ look down on people who sign up, same as you’d look down on someone who joined a criminal gang. NO ONE currently serving was drafted, and everyone in right now either joined while the war was going on, or had a chance to get out since the war began. There IS a moral aspect to signing up. There are also not that many big surprises in America’s foreign policy: someone considering joining today should ask themselves how they’d feel taking part in an invasion of Iran, or in one of the hot spots in Africa I keep hearing about. Those are the kind of actions they might be required to support. How do they feel about that? I get the impression most soldiers (at least most enlisted ones) _don’t_ spend a lot of time asking themselves those questions. They should. Or maybe by the time I see them they’ve already sorted that stuff out in their minds and are comfortable with what they’re doing. And maybe they have very good reasons for it that you don’t see or understand. Or maybe not. In any event, you yourself wrote that the current war in Afghanistan is justified. So why are you shaking with rage at the thought of someone joining to support it? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/92 "2012-10-02T05:16:38Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > **Robert163** , the simple point is that most people disagree with you about the morality of US military actions. For someone who _does_ agree with you, you have more or less the right response: if all the military does is pointlessly invade countries and kill innocent babies, then yeah - you _should_ look down on people who sign up, same as you’d look down on someone who joined a criminal gang. > > NO ONE currently serving was drafted, and everyone in right now either joined while the war was going on, or had a chance to get out since the war began. There IS a moral aspect to signing up. There are also not that many big surprises in America’s foreign policy: someone considering joining today should ask themselves how they’d feel taking part in an invasion of Iran, or in one of the hot spots in Africa I keep hearing about. Those are the kind of actions they might be required to support. How do they feel about that? > > I get the impression most soldiers (at least most enlisted ones) _don’t_ spend a lot of time asking themselves those questions. They should. Or maybe by the time I see them they’ve already sorted that stuff out in their minds and are comfortable with what they’re doing. And maybe they have very good reasons for it that you don’t see or understand. Or maybe not. > > In any event, you yourself wrote that the current war in Afghanistan is justified. So why are you shaking with rage at the thought of someone joining to support it? The war in Afghanistan was necessary but that does not make the US military a legitimate organization. If for example, Brazil invaded Cuba and was going to use this as a launching ground to invade America, we’d have to fight them. But that doesn’t make all the other things the military is involved with OK. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/93 "2012-10-02T05:26:21Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > **Robert163** , the simple point is that most people disagree with you about the morality of US military actions. For someone who _does_ agree with you, you have more or less the right response: if all the military does is pointlessly invade countries and kill innocent babies, then yeah - you _should_ look down on people who sign up, same as you’d look down on someone who joined a criminal gang. > > NO ONE currently serving was drafted, and everyone in right now either joined while the war was going on, or had a chance to get out since the war began. There IS a moral aspect to signing up. There are also not that many big surprises in America’s foreign policy: someone considering joining today should ask themselves how they’d feel taking part in an invasion of Iran, or in one of the hot spots in Africa I keep hearing about. Those are the kind of actions they might be required to support. How do they feel about that? > > I get the impression most soldiers (at least most enlisted ones) _don’t_ spend a lot of time asking themselves those questions. They should. Or maybe by the time I see them they’ve already sorted that stuff out in their minds and are comfortable with what they’re doing. And maybe they have very good reasons for it that you don’t see or understand. Or maybe not. > > In any event, you yourself wrote that the current war in Afghanistan is justified. So why are you shaking with rage at the thought of someone joining to support it? If someone signed up to fight in Afghanistan but was sent to Iraq instead I’d view it as the same as someone who was drafted in Vietnam, they were taken against their will and pressed into service. If they wanted to go to Iraq I’d feel different of course. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/94 "2012-10-02T05:27:00Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > The war in Afghanistan was necessary but that does not make the US military a legitimate organization. If for example, Brazil invaded Cuba and was going to use this as a launching ground to invade America, we’d have to fight them. But that doesn’t make all the other things the military is involved with OK. Huh? So if the war in Afghanistan was necessary but the military is illegitimate, how do you propose the war should have been fought? I think you’re not thinking this through. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/95 "2012-10-02T05:29:07Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > If someone signed up to fight in Afghanistan but was sent to Iraq instead I’d view it as the same as someone who was drafted in Vietnam, they were taken against their will and pressed into service. If they wanted to go to Iraq I’d feel different of course. Well, that’s one of those moral questions you have to ask yourself when you sign up. You _don’t_ get to pick and choose which parts of which conflicts you get to go fight. You have to be willing to go where you’re ordered. If you’re not okay with that, you probably shouldn’t join. Nothing whatsoever like being drafted. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/96 "2012-10-02T05:33:37Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Well, that’s one of those moral questions you have to ask yourself when you sign up. You _don’t_ get to pick and choose which parts of which conflicts you get to go fight. You have to be willing to go where you’re ordered. If you’re not okay with that, you probably shouldn’t join. Nothing whatsoever like being drafted. Yes but what if the nation is under attack? I think that at that point joining is obviously correct. Like, if the house is on fire and there is a drought going on, you put out the fire and worry about the drought later. Bad example maybe but I think you can see my point. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/97 "2012-10-02T05:36:51Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Huh? So if the war in Afghanistan was necessary but the military is illegitimate, how do you propose the war should have been fought? > > I think you’re not thinking this through. I think there always needs to be a small standing army for such emergencies. Joining then would be acceptable but not at the size of the army now. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/98 "2012-10-02T06:10:35Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I think there always needs to be a small standing army for such emergencies. Joining then would be acceptable but not at the size of the army now. Fine. Well, per the context of this thread, one kind of personality that is attracted to the modern military is the kind that is okay with killing or supporting the killing of other people according to the known tendencies of American foreign policy. Most people are okay with that, or even think it is very good; you think it is evil. That’s fine, and lots of GD threads have hashed that stuff out. But it’s kind of beside the point here. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/99 "2012-10-02T07:16:51Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Immaterial. They obviously have no real qualms about performing violence and oppression at the hands of the US government. If someone has any real objection to this, any - real - objection, they don’t join the military. > [@Robert163](#): > > And what about all the people the US Military has killed? How many of them deserved to die and how many were simply died because of politics? Wow. I knew you guys had The Biggest Baddest Army in the World, but I didn’t know it was the only one. Bloody multilingual one, too! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296/100 "2012-10-02T07:17:47Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > because the colonists had more freedom and paid less taxes than people living in england It wasn’t about taxes. It was about representation. The Americans felt they were entitled to the same rights as Britons theoretically had in Britain - the right to be represented in Parliament. Without that right, Americans were living in a dictatorship, regardless of how benign it might be in practice. And what do you feel the justification was for the War of 1812? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-kind-of-personality-is-attracted-to-the-modern-military/636296.md?page=6)