So what was the North fighting for?

(Long post coming up. Sorry.)

That’s absolutely true. I would add that, in addition to moral concerns regarding the rights and welfare of the slaves themselves–and whether or not most white Northerners considered blacks to be their equals, those definitely played a major role in the anti-slavery movement; after all, buying and selling and owning people was pretty fundamentally incompatible with the philosophy of the Declaration of Independence–there was additionally a lot of concern that slavery was inimical to the principles of republican government among white men.

The need to guard against an uprising by the slaves meant that the rights of even white men had to be curtailed–thus, the “Slave Power” insisted that “incendiary” tracts couldn’t be sent through the U.S. Mail on the grounds they might incite “servile insurrection”. Anti-slavery views became, not just something that most people in the South didn’t agree with, but something the open expression of which could not be tolerated, even if it mean telling white men what they could and could not openly say. The “gag rules” concerning the debating of certain anti-slavery resolutions in Congress were a seemingly minor thing, but a lot of people outside the South really resented them–even if someone had no desire to interfere with slavery in the District of Columbia, being told that the United States Congress didn’t even have the right to consider the subject really rankled. (William W. Freehling in his two-volume history Road to Disunion has a thorough discussion of the dynamics of the “gag rule”, and also of the issue of sending anti-slavery literature through the U.S. Mail.)

There was also a lot of suspicion in the North that the habits of mind engendered by owning people–especially large numbers of people, as the big plantation owners did–would inevitably result in a certain aristocratic attitude, and that such quasi-aristocrats would never see their fellow citizens–even other white men–as being truly equal to them. The rise of the Republican Party also saw some quite modern concerns about the concentration of wealth represented by the big plantations as leading to an erosion of republican values.

There was also a good bit of resentment among Northerners–who liked to believe that “honest work” was the way to get ahead in life–of the very old aristocratic attitude you tend to find in any slave society, that hard physical work is something for inferiors to do, not free men. In the Northeast and the Midwest and the West, there was the attitude that a man who was willing to work hard could make something of himself–clear a farm on the frontier, build a factory out of nothing. To the aristocrats of the Slave Power, “honest labor” was something you compelled other and “inferior” people to do, with whips if need be. (Heather Cox Richardson’s To Make Men Free: A History of the Republican Party is an excellent discussion of the surprisingly progressive and pro-labor views of the early Republican Party.)

The Dred Scott decision was also huge, as it meant that slavery was no longer just something that existed somewhere else, down South; many Northerners now feared that Dred Scott meant the nationalization of slavery, and its inevitable spread even to the “Free States”–another example of the seemingly insatiable rapacity of the “Slave Power”.

Finally, when the “Slave Power” sought to destroy the Union through secession, then opened fire on a United States military installation at Fort Sumter, I think a lot of Northerners who hadn’t necessarily been all that sympathetic to the anti-slavery cause saw that maybe there was something to this notion that slavery was fundamentally incompatible with republican self-government. Slavery caused disunion and rebellion and war; so slavery would by God well have to go.

’ If I could save the union without freeing any slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.’ - Abraham Lincoln, August, 1862

The Emancipation Proclamation put Confederacy-supporting England behind the 8-ball.

You might also be opposed to slavery on grounds other than moral. The entire state of Oregon was founded on the dual principles of racism and anti-slavery. Not only was slavery banned, but so were freed blacks. That was in effort to protect the economic position of white settlers.

Yes, but Abe ran on a platform which was anti-slavery, specifically preventing the spread of slavery into new states or territories. This was a big deal for him.

I was always partial to “Tenting Tonight”. American Civil War Song: Tenting Tonight - YouTube

Right. Lincoln’s political position was to stop/contain the power of slave holders. He wasn’t trying to free the slaves, just break the political dominance of slaveholders.

Freeing the slaves by a slow gradual practice was the idea.

stop the spread.

Repeal the fugitive slave laws.

Buy slaves and free them

etc. etc.

For the average white union soldier they weren’t fighting for such lofty goals as ending slavery. You know until I watched the movie gangs of New York I really had no idea of the extent of arrivals fresh off the boat from Ireland being recruited into the army and also the draft riots, which basically devolved into a massive race riot.

I think we tend to want to speak in broad terms about the motivations of both the Union soldiers and Confederate soldiers. But the individual motivations of so many people are not so cleanly and clearly defined.

Similarly the motivations of people of the various states that joined the Confederacy may show significant variability within that state.

I grew up in the northeast corner of Tennessee. It was often mentioned in my American History class that Tennessee voted on secession twice. The first vote rejected secession. The second vote, after fighting began at Fort Sumter, was in favor of secession.

But even in that second vote broad swaths of eastern Tennessee voted against secession. Slavery certainly existed in those areas which twice voted against secession, but as there were far fewer large plantations in that generally more mountainous area compared to western Tennessee.

And within those pro-Union counties of eastern Tennessee there was a noted abolitionist sentiment. The first dedicated abolitionist newspaper in the United States was the Manumission Intelligencer printed in Jonesborough, Tennessee which began publication in 1819. It’s $3 annual subscription price is the inflation adjusted equivalent of more than $2000 today. Since publication required approval of a board that met infrequently the publisher began publishing another paper The Emancipator in 1820.

Union sentiment was high enough in east Tennessee that there were competing Union and Confederate recruiting rallies in Knoxville. And when that second state vote favored secession, " Following the vote, the East Tennessee Union Convention petitioned the state legislature, asking that East Tennessee be allowed to form a separate, Union-aligned state. The petition was rejected, however, and Governor Harris ordered Confederate troops into the region."

So, the Confederacy was not all about the right to secession as a general concept. They seemed to only favor it when it suited their purposes.

This was also about the time of the movie “Glory” where they really started bringing in more black soldiers.

Anj interesting set of songs is the Union and Confederate versions of “Dixie”.

Confederate Dixie.

Union Dixie. Most people have never heard this one.

Also this set of songs celebrating Irish soldiers.

Confederate “The Irish Brigade” - a cool song about fighting the “Lincolnites”

Union “Song of the Irish Brigade”.

And then there is this song “The Boys that Wore the Green” about Irish soldiers on both sides.

Union Dixie

That was fantastic, thanks

I’ve always been hesitant to use that quote because I’ve been unable to find a cite.

Keeping slavery provided for the South controlling the House of Representatives. “Two thirds of a man”. Losing control of the House would mean the end of slavery. If the South lost that and remained in the USA, they were screwed, from their viewpoint.

How’s this, from the Library of Congress?

The Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress
Series 2. General Correspondence. 1858-1864.
Abraham Lincoln to Horace Greeley, Friday, August 22, 1862 (Clipping from Aug. 23, 1862 New York Tribune)

Thanks!

Didn’t George Washington say that?

https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=mal&fileName=mal2/423/4233400/malpage.db&recNum=0

What struck me about “Gangs of New York” was the extent to which it soft-pedaled the role of racial hostility in the draft riots.

A CSA would have been a pretty shitty neighbor sharing a long border. A class based society, a backward economy and an all too willingness to resolve disputes with combat. Maybe Lincoln didn’t want to share the continent with a bunch like that.