A long time ago it struck me that Star Trek society seemed to have more in common with an idealised communist state that with conteporary Western values. In fact the whole set-up seems to be singularly non-American - no money and no religion. I wonder if the Star Trek series has even been a hit with communist or other democratic/capitalist countries?
The original series had no problem describing some individuals as “rich” (i.e. the three miners in “Mudd’s Women”) and “credits” were used as units of currency in the same way “dollars” or “pounds” would be (want to buy a tribble? Only one credit!). Roddenberry evidently didn’t have any trouble with basic economics back in the sixties.
The touchy-feely “no need for money” crap came much later, when Roddenberry was, frankly, getting a bit squirrely. It may have been partly in reaction to the go-go-greed of the eighties (Star Trek: TNG first aired in 1987). In any event, sanctimony about 20th-century values was pretty common in TNG, so I’m not inclined to pretend the writers had anything particularly profound to say. They just did a lot of preachy belly-aching.
And let’s not forget the Ferengis - the Republicans of the future.
I seem to recall somebody–I think it was Riker–getting issued money for some mission on an economically primitive planet. There was some discussion right before he left. “Amazing, some people still trade money for goods.” Or something like that. This would have occurred in the first season or two. Sorry I can’t be more specific. Perhaps this will jog the memory of somebody more dedicated to ST:TNG than I.
There’s no doubt that Roddenberry was starting to go off the deep end, concept-wise, well before TNG was aired. It’s a matter of public record that Roddenberry was displeased with the script to “Wrath of Khan” (1982) because - I’m not making this up - he argued that Starfleet was not a military organization. Remember, this is an organization that HE conceived in which people have ranks, wear uniforms, carry weapons, fly around in battleships, and fight wars. The Enterprise was not exactly a Greenpeace protest vessel; it was armed to the gunwales and blasted someone in every second episode. Starfleet is quite obviously a Navy In Space, but by 1982 he was passionately arguing that there wasn’t anything militaristic about it at all. Reading about his objections, you start to wonder if he was schizophrenic; the level of delusion is difficult to understand.
The rather bizarre contradiction there made it into ST:TNG in spades in the first 2-3 seasons; the early series is almost absurd in its repudiation of 20th century common sense.
In one Q-related episode, Picard derides the manifestation of a 20th century U.S. Army general as wearing a “ridiculous costume,” e.g. his uniform. It’s a terrible, suspension-of-disbelief-bending moment on two levels; first of all, Picard and the rest of the crew are wearing uniforms, aren’t they? It’s silly to think they forgot that. Secondly, even if the uniforms are different, is it logical to think Jean-Luc Picard, a PASSIONATE student of history, a fan of 20th century detective fiction, would not be cool with the fact that people used to wear different clothes? It’s just terrible scriptwriting no matter how you slice it; it doesn’t make any sense, it’s visually embarassing (“You’re stupid for wearing a uniform! Please ignore what I’m wearing!”) and it’s not a subtle jab at the Enterprise crew’s own prejudices; it was meant with absolute seriousness.
In addition to the free-from-want philosophy, the notion of religion is quite explicitly claimed to be stupid; curiously, however, you never see anyone tell Worf his Klingon beliefs (e.g. the belief that Kahless will return) are stupid, so is religion OK for Klingons but not humans? Or are they saying Worf is stupid?
Furthermore, Picard and crew also harp on more than one occasion about how humans are so much more peacful in the 24th century despite the fact that the Federation seems to get in a LOT of wars and is fairly aggressive about expanding their borders.
By the middle of the series’s run, with less Roddenberry, I think a lot of the preaching stopped, because it’s just impossible to square the kumbayah-talk with the dramatic necessities of the show and the myriad inconsistencies.
So I’d have to conclude that ST:TNG does not have an economic philosophy that matches anything we would understand. It certainly seems that cheap energy and replicators have CHANGED the nature of economics, at least in the Federation.
Consider Captain Picard’s brother.
He owns and operates a vineyard. Now on the show his wine is considered very good. But what if it sucked. What if nobody wanted his wine. Nobody has to buy wine you can replicate it. Now some people may want the old fashion wine and they have to go and get it I suppose but what if his wine sucked? Would he just keep making bad wine year after year? I suppose the supplies he needs to make wine are free to him so he can do that for his entire life and pass down bad wine making to his children.
The thing is that if you don’t have economic pressure on to perform a quality service (like capitalism) and you don’t have some sort of political pressure to perform (commie bastard system) then what would make a person perform to a level of competence acceptable to society?
Look if money ceased to matter today, we would have about a billion film directors tomorrow. However in the Star Trek universe we have a billion highly educated scientists and engineers. (actually, very few artists as everyone in STNG was an artist on the side) Sure some people would aspire to be great scientists but most people would surf or snow ski or act or write bad novels if they didn’t have to pay the rent.
While this is a very good question, I can’t speak on the whole, as I find it confusing as well. However, I know that Starfleet vessels, as far as missions in other territories go, have a certain amount of specie set aside - in some form I can’t really fathom, probably something like stocks with a set price according to going rates in non-Federation space on goods and items - that can be given to folks either on away teams or just on shore leave for personal use.
This I know, but it is still befuddling.
That’s all well and good for starship crew members being sent on missions, but what about Mr. Average Joe in San Diego, CA who wants to take his family on a nice vacation to Pluto for Christmas? Are plane/space tickets free as well? What about hotel rooms? And souvenirs? As pointed out, not every species is as happy go lucky about giving away everything for free as humans seem to be. EVERYTHING the Ferengi do is for profit. Picard’s gone on several vacations on various planets, but what did he use to pay for his stay and food?
I recall credits being thrown around a few times, but even so recently as First Contact Picard makes a comment along the lines of “There is no need for money anymore” when the woman asks him how much the ship cost to make.
Emphasis mine.
Sorry, this is a personal pet peeve but I don’t think there was ever a battleship Enterprise. Both Enterprise CV-6 and Enterprise CV-65 are aircraft carriers. Previous Enterprises (six of them) were mostly schooners plus one captured British supply ship and one sloop of war. No battleships. You probably meant to use the term “warship.” The navy prefixes its ship with USS and USNS (United States Naval Ship) but I’ve forgotten the distinction. I think USNS is for auxiliary ships.
To the OP though I think the Federations economic model is a colossal crock of shit for many of the reasons already posted. If literature has taught us anything it is that the shiny veneer of a utopian society hides a much more massive evil. Not every one wants to fit into society even under the best conditions. You can’t selectively breed out the Holden Caufields of the world and I think that’s a good thing. For every Wesley Crusher there are ten guys that would delight in beating the hell out of him for his milk money. Of course all those poor bastards are in the Federation gulag or pushing a giant millstone in the Enterprise dungeon. Where do you think that constant low frequency rumbling comes from? All you ST fans bought giant subwoofers to listen to a product of slave labor!!
Sorry, did I get a little spit on you when I was foaming at the mouth there? I like my Scifi gritty, like Blade Runner. Let’s see that pantywaist Picard try to drink vodka with a split lip.
There were, FWIW, acceptable religions for humans in the future. They just were all touchy-feely, new age things like psuedo-American Indian mysticism (and all were correct, naturally).
I’m quite certain that in a society where everything was free and readily available that there would be things like research and exploration still going on, but what kind of person would want to be the lowly grunt crawling through the jeffries tube when you could have your own warp capable starship replicated (doesn’t even have to be particularly large, just a shuttlecraft…)?
I realized long ago that Star Trek’s economic system is the communist ideal: no money, everyone can have whatever they need, and everyone works hard because … well … errr … they can? 
Of course, we know now that communism doesn’t work, so I have a hard time believing that Star Strek’s economy could work, either.
Here’s a question about the Federation: what is its government like? Is it even a democracy? I can’t for the life of me remember any episode in any Trek series where they mention elections or other things that would indicate a democratic style of government. (The exception is when the Bajorans elected a new Kai, but that was a religous matter, not a governmental one, and the Bajorans weren’t IIRC members of the Federation.) I remember references to planets having representatives, but they could just be apointed by the planet’s governor or ruling council or whatever. Was Roddenberry a fascist?
Padeye: Grittiness is why I like Star Wars better than Star Trek. It just strikes me as a more realistic vision of what a spacefaring galaxy would be like: Everything is explicitly capitalist, and the government is corrupt and doesn’t give a damn if you starve to death on some asteroid somewhere.
And everyone doesn’t speak the same language 
Nah. They’re obviously the Reform Party candidates of the future.
I mean, just look at the resemblance between the Ferengi and Ross Perot!
Here’s a question about the Federation: what is its government like? Is it even a democracy?
Well, the Federation President was shown on screen in at least one movie and the term ‘Federation Council’ was bandied about a few times as well. From that, I’d assume it had some sort of democratic leanings.
I beg to differ! A lack-free society that can’t find new things will inevitably get bored, and then make more babies! And they will continue to make more and more babies until there are so many people around that even the vast technological resources of the Federation can’t give all of them a lack-free life.
At which point we’re right back around to where we are now.
In seven years, there was never any sex on the Enterprise (not even for use in the Holodeck). Clearly, the Federation has forgotten about sex. How’re they gonna make more babies? Transporter accidents?
Data and Yar.
[ahem]
Anyway, I have delved through some of my texts and discovered very little on the economy. Most of it has to do with the Economics Council.
The Federation Credit revolves around “postmonetary services, rarities and foriegn exchange.”
Pretty concise, eh?
As for politics … way too much on that for me to type, but the Federation Constitution declares that the Fed. Pres. has six year terms and is not voted in by popular vote but by the Fed. Council.
So there.
Doesn’t count. He’s little more than a sex toy, and she’s dead.
Sounds like the relationship my parents had.
All we can really tell is that they probably subscribe to something resembling the UN Declaration of Human Rights – much individual freedom AND a ton of entitled social benefits.
Originally, in the 1966 writers’ guidelines, the rule was that they would avoid saying or showing ANYTHING about how Earth was run, except that it was much better and there was peace, and prosperity, and freedom for everyone. In fact one big rule was to avoid setting any episode on Earth-at-Kirk’s-time itself.
Later, when things began getting elaborated, the apparent model was a hybrid of an idealized UN with an idealized US, where each planet retains its preferred political system as long as compliant with the (really)Universal Declaration of Intelligent-Lifeform Rights, and the Federation government would maintain the standing Starfleet, keep the peace and carry out relations with other major spacefaring powers. (I suppose we could now see it as an idealized version of the EU). In that explanation, BTW, the “state government” of Earth WAS the UN – of course, not the one from today, but the one constituted after whatever future wars happened. No explanation however as to how the heck the components could be compelled to carry their own weight.
So the political system was yet another thing they did not think over carefully enough, in part because in the beginning, it was intended to be kept far in the background. So everyone contributed his/her own loose end. In TOS the only Fed civilian officials we see are Ambassadors and maybe one or another bureaucrat (the guy with the quatrotriticale grain) and the only higher-up we ever get to hear about is a “High Commissioner” (very UN-like). In the movies we saw a “Federation Council” and a “Federation President” assisted by a Starfleet Commander In Chief but apart from this last one, we really don’t see what anyone’s functions are – as in is the Fed Prez a Head of State, of Government, both, or a Secretary-General?. One thing we see, at the end of ST-IV, is the Fed Council and President trying Kirk & Co. for “violating the orders of Starfleet”. This means that at the highest level you lose the separation of powers (exec/legis/judic) AND the separation of courts martial from civil courts. That one got away from the writers badly, for the sake of a dramatic scene.
At one point, what I started seeing in the Federation was not a “progressive” organization, but more like the old-time British Empire, with an assortment of colonies, dependencies, protectorates, satellite states, client kingdoms, bailiwicks, mandates, realms and independent-but-closely-linked “member nations” , scattered all over the place and everything held together and patrolled by the mighty Fleet.
You mean like the “democratically elected” President Saddam Hussein?
Despite their claiming to work hard at maintaining internal consistency in the series, the writers often as not get things out of whack. (Lucas hasn’t done much better in this regard, either.)
In one of the technical manuals they mention that having replicators should mean that anyone can have a super massive star ship any time they snap their fingers, so they made up some arbitrary BS about how the materials starships were made out of couldn’t be replicated.
Personally, I have a hard time believing that people would give up money even if there was no need for it. After all, if you’re an engineer and you’ve just busted your ass for six months on designing a better warp drive, I don’t think that you’re going to settle for a hearty handshake and a “thank you.” (Maybe a couple of hours in a holosuite with the program of your choice…)