# So what will it take for there to be serious gun control debate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2019, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166 "2019-08-04T09:51:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/281 "2019-08-06T18:05:57Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I think it’s ugly to impugn the motives of your opponents in an attempt to prevent discussion when we are discussing the repeated slaughter of our fellow citizens. I don’t want to prevent discussion, but I prefer reason to emotional appeals. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/282 "2019-08-06T18:06:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It’s a bit too late to register those 300 million guns at the time of purchase. And guns are a tad easier to hide than a car is. Excuses. > [@](#): > > Yes, I do. Get the media to voluntarily stop glorifying the killers. Have them not name them. Sociologists have made it clear that is the cause of mass shootings. They have? Cite? > [@](#): > > Stop straw man sellers. Tighten up background checks. And you think _that’s_ realistically going to have an effect, while actual regulation of ownership and owners will not. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/283 "2019-08-06T18:07:19Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Except Trump… and his enablers in congress. > > [Trump Calls For Mental Health Action After Shooting; His Budget Would Cut Programs : The Two-Way : NPR](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/15/586095437/trump-calls-for-mental-health-action-after-shooting-his-budget-would-cut-program) Yep, because that was a bad bill. What is did was say that anyone on SocSec disability was too crazy to own a gun, no matter their mental issue. Getting a benefit from the Govt should not stop your Constitutional rights. There are mental issues that dont make you a danger to others, for example Agoraphobia. But just because a person is afraid to leave her home, that doesn’t mean she can’t own a gun to protect herself. Or would you make her defenseless in her own home because she gets a check? If a person has been _judged a danger to himself or others by a court,_ they are already banned from owning or buying a gun. That is **Due Process**. That bill took away **due process** , the repeal of it simple brought back\*\* Due process. \*\* The **ACLU** lobbied hard to get that bill repealed. that shoudl tell you something- it aint the NRA- its the ACLU. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/284 "2019-08-06T18:09:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The right to carry a flintlock musket as long as you’re wearing the tricorn hat and knee breeches of your militia unit? Yes, like the right to only publish a newspaper or book as long as it is printed on a 18th century hand press,- which means you have no right to free expression on the Internet or over the phone. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/285 "2019-08-06T18:10:49Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > You can’t engage in a discussion? Nope, he apparently just wants to rant. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/286 "2019-08-06T18:11:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [post 764] None of your responses makes any sense to me, so… you go on thinking you made points. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/287 "2019-08-06T18:11:14Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > I think it’s ugly to use a tragedy to accomplish your aims. I’m not using the tragedy to accomplish my aim… THE TRAGEDY IS THE AIM. Your guns are irrelevant lumps of metal, I couldn’t give a rat fuck about any of them, it’s the people being killed in bunches, people killed by the thousands every year, that is the thing that matters. So, talking about the tragedy isn’t ugly because the tragedy is the problem to be solved. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/288 "2019-08-06T18:11:27Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > You want to be dismissive and condescending, fine. But have you seen what people do when they are shot at? Have you been in the military and in the line of fire, or spoken to anybody that was? I live in civilized society. Or at least I used to think I did. I chose not to enter the military because I did not want to put myself in a position where I could be shot at any time. Shouldn’t we want to not live in that world? Is that the world you want your kids to live in? I never had to do active shooter drills when I was in school. My heart breaks that our kids will never know what it was like to not live in fear that they might not make it back home from school on any given day. This is the world we’ve created for them and it’s shameful. As the adults in this country it is our duty to do everything we can to make the world a better place for those that come after us. We are utterly failing to do that. Some of us still want to try. Apparently some of us don’t. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/289 "2019-08-06T18:13:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep, because that was a bad bill. What is did was say that anyone on SocSec disability was too crazy to own a gun, no matter their mental issue. Getting a benefit from the Govt should not stop your Constitutional rights. There are mental issues that dont make you a danger to others, for example Agoraphobia. But just because a person is afraid to leave her home, that doesn’t mean she can’t own a gun to protect herself. Or would you make her defenseless in her own home because she gets a check? > If a person has been _judged a danger to himself or others by a court,_ they are already banned from owning or buying a gun. That is **Due Process**. That bill took away **due process** , the repeal of it simple brought back\*\* Due process. \*\* > > The **ACLU** lobbied hard to get that bill repealed. that shoudl tell you something- it aint the NRA- its the ACLU. Therefore then a new bill that concentrates on the relevant mental issues should be made. Not holding my breath for this president and his enablers to make one. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/290 "2019-08-06T18:13:43Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > I don’t want to prevent discussion, but I prefer reason to emotional appeals. You just accused anyone who is trying to solve this problem of being disingenuous and only coldy using the tragedies to achieve pre-existing goals. This is saying that your opponents don’t actually care about the slaughters. That is a very ugly thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/291 "2019-08-06T18:14:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The very same used by doctors and judges after those doctors and judges declare someone as having a mental issue. Not just a “mental issue”, why is that? Fear of cats is a mental issue. The reason to take someones right to own a gun away is that if they have a mental issue _that makes them a danger to themselves or others._ We have a process for that- it’s called, oddly " **Due Process"** and it makes you ineligible to own or buy a gun. Its been that way for decades. Have people on SocSec disability been killing people in large numbers? Got a cite? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/292 "2019-08-06T18:14:39Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > None of your responses makes any sense to me Thanks for admitting you’re part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/293 "2019-08-06T18:16:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > We have a process for that- it’s called, oddly " **Due Process"** and it makes you ineligible to own or buy a gun. Its been that way for decades. And how’s that been workin out for us so far? Lots of dangerous people unable to get guns these days? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/294 "2019-08-06T18:17:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, like the right to only publish a newspaper or book as long as it is printed on a 18th century hand press,- which means you have no right to free expression on the Internet or over the phone. The principle of free expression has remained constant. The role of militias, and the need for a guarantee of their arming and training, \*disappeared \*the day the standing army was established. I think you know that. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/295 "2019-08-06T18:17:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope, he apparently just wants to rant. :rolleyes: Sometimes, that’s the response that’s deserved, just not in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/296 "2019-08-06T18:17:50Z")
> [@dhricenak](#): > > Maybe if someone brought an assault rifle to the Senate floor and opened fire. That’s quite enough of that. No more threats of violence, even in jest, against anyone in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/297 "2019-08-06T18:17:52Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’m not using the tragedy to accomplish my aim… THE TRAGEDY IS THE AIM. > > Your guns are irrelevant lumps of metal, I couldn’t give a rat fuck about any of them, it’s the people being killed in bunches, people killed by the thousands every year, that is the thing that matters. > > So, talking about the tragedy isn’t ugly because the tragedy is the problem to be solved. People are defended by these irrelevant lumps of metal, including my mother, once. And check out the 538 linked graphic I cited above and count your thousands. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/298 "2019-08-06T18:18:01Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I know this has been floated a few times but I don’t know what to do with this thought other than to point and laugh at it. > It’s a ridiculous notion. Especially since one of the leading spokesman for the NRA is. Black man. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/299 "2019-08-06T18:23:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not just a “mental issue”, why is that? Fear of cats is a mental issue. > The reason to take someones right to own a gun away is that if they have a mental issue _that makes them a danger to themselves or others._ > > We have a process for that- it’s called, oddly " **Due Process"** and it makes you ineligible to own or buy a gun. Its been that way for decades. > > Have people on SocSec disability been killing people in large numbers? Got a cite? So much for telling others they are just ranting, what you did here propping up a straw man. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/300 "2019-08-06T18:24:10Z")
Originally Posted by sps49sd … But have you seen what people do when they are shot at? Have you been in the military and in the line of fire, or spoken to anybody that was? > [@Airbeck](#): > > I live in civilized society. Or at least I used to think I did. I chose not to enter the military because I did not want to put myself in a position where I could be shot at any time. Shouldn’t we want to not live in that world? Is that the world you want your kids to live in? I never had to do active shooter drills when I was in school. My heart breaks that our kids will never know what it was like to not live in fear that they might not make it back home from school on any given day. This is the world we’ve created for them and it’s shameful. > > As the adults in this country it is our duty to do everything we can to make the world a better place for those that come after us. We are utterly failing to do that. Some of us still want to try. Apparently some of us don’t. That sounds like “no”. I suggest you seek that information out, rather than tell me how sad you are, because you asked me a question and I think I answered it fairly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166.md?page=16)