# So what will it take for there to be serious gun control debate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2019, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166 "2019-08-04T09:51:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/301 "2019-08-06T18:25:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Thanks for admitting you’re part of the problem. Your clever answers- aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/302 "2019-08-06T18:25:54Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Originally Posted by sps49sd > … But have you seen what people do when they are shot at? Have you been in the military and in the line of fire, or spoken to anybody that was? > > That sounds like “no”. I suggest you seek that information out, rather than tell me how sad you are, because you asked me a question and I think I answered it fairly. And you accused me and everyone else trying to figure out how to solve this problem of being opportunistic and not actually caring about the victims of all of these slaughters. I think we’ve both said all we need to say to each other at this point. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/303 "2019-08-06T18:29:06Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > And how’s that been workin out for us so far? Lots of dangerous people unable to get guns these days? Dangerous people are prevented from buying guns every day, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/304 "2019-08-06T18:30:56Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Dangerous people are prevented from buying guns every day, yes. And yet, 30,000 people are killed with bullets every year. We seem to be missing an awful lot of people who are a “danger to themselves or others”. Maybe this cunning plan doesn’t work? Maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/305 "2019-08-06T18:32:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There’s murder and terrorism everywhere, including nations with very strict gun control. > > Gun control doesnt stop those things, or even slow them down. That would be a strong argument. If it had any relationship to reality. Here’s the murder rate per 100,000 citizens in several countries: The United States - 5.3 Canada - 1.8 Belgium - 1.7 Israel - 1.4 France - 1.3 Denmark - 1.2 United Kingdom - 1.2 Sweden - 1.1 Germany - 1.0 Ireland - 0.9 Australia - 0.8 Netherlands - 0.8 Poland - 0.8 Austria - 0.7 Greece - 0.7 Italy - 0.7 New Zealand - 0.7 Portugal - 0.7 Spain - 0.7 Czech Republic - 0.6 South Korea - 0.6 Norway - 0.5 Switzerland - 0.5 Japan - 0.2 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/306 "2019-08-06T18:39:48Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > More specifically, the root of the problem is the lack of nation-wide federal legislation that reflects the true dangers of firearms. … We have the National Firearms Act, the Federal Firearms Act, the Gun Control Act, the Brady Act. We even had a federal assault weapon ban for 10 years until Congress realized it didn’t accomplish much of anything and let it sunset. I don’t know if you’re ignorant of those pieces of legislation or just ignoring their existence and relying on your audience’s ignorance of those pieces of legislation, but either way, you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/307 "2019-08-06T18:39:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That would be a strong argument. If it had any relationship to reality. > > Here’s the murder rate per 100,000 citizens in several countries: > > The United States - 5.3 > Canada - 1.8 > Belgium - 1.7 > Israel - 1.4 > France - 1.3 > Denmark - 1.2 > United Kingdom - 1.2 > Sweden - 1.1 > Germany - 1.0 > Ireland - 0.9 > Australia - 0.8 > Netherlands - 0.8 > Poland - 0.8 > Austria - 0.7 > Greece - 0.7 > Italy - 0.7 > New Zealand - 0.7 > Portugal - 0.7 > Spain - 0.7 > Czech Republic - 0.6 > South Korea - 0.6 > Norway - 0.5 > Switzerland - 0.5 > Japan - 0.2 Nice cherry picked list you have there. You left out Belarus. And Hungary And Estonia. And Mexico. And Greenland… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/308 "2019-08-06T18:43:02Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Dangerous people are prevented from buying guns every day, yes. Far fewer in shall-issue jurisdictions than in others. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/309 "2019-08-06T18:45:01Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > And yet, 30,000 people are killed with bullets every year. > > We seem to be missing an awful lot of people who are a “danger to themselves or others”. > > Maybe this cunning plan doesn’t work? Maybe? 2/3 of which are suicides. Did you look at how many were from mass shootings? I didn’t say ‘all’; you asked “_Lots of dangerous people unable to get guns these days?_” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/310 "2019-08-06T18:47:55Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > And you accused me and everyone else trying to figure out how to solve this problem of being opportunistic and not actually caring about the victims of all of these slaughters. We aren’t getting agreement on the definition, or even existence, of the problem, sadly. While we think there is a real problem and that it is the number of people getting killed, \*they \*think in short that the problem is that their guns are under threat. The killings don’t even get mentioned compassionately, or at all; it’s the guns they care about. That’s defining \*themselves \*as a problem to be solved. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/311 "2019-08-06T18:50:15Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > And how’s that been workin out for us so far? Lots of dangerous people unable to get guns these days? You do know the chances of being murdered by someone with a gun are way down over the last few decades, right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/312 "2019-08-06T18:51:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You do know the chances of being murdered by someone with a gun are way down over the last few decades, right? So the need to have guns for self-defense has also gone down, right? ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/313 "2019-08-06T18:51:55Z")
_Dangerous people are prevented from buying guns every day, yes._ > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Far fewer in shall-issue jurisdictions than in others. “Shall issue” generally refers to concealed carry licenses, not purchase. The purchase requirements are the same in a particular jurisdiction whether one has a CCW or not. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/314 "2019-08-06T18:53:44Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That’s quite enough of that. No more threats of violence, even in jest, against anyone in this thread. I’m sure the irony of \*that \*instruction in \*this \*thread has not escaped you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/315 "2019-08-06T18:55:52Z")
HD: _You do know the chances of being murdered by someone with a gun are way down over the last few decades, right?_ > [@Czarcasm](#): > > So the need to have guns for self-defense has also gone down, right? NO. People who are smaller and/ or less strong that assailants, or those members of a group that has historically been ‘ganged up’ on, have the right to defend themselves with a firearm. Prey should not be limited in self defense to equivalent devices that are strength and/ or agility dependent. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/316 "2019-08-06T18:57:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So the need to have guns for self-defense has also gone down, right? I don’t really subscribe to your “need” philosophy. It’s a right, and people ought to be free to exercise it, regardless of how you judge their “need”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/317 "2019-08-06T18:59:04Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > NO. > > People who are smaller and/ or less strong that assailants, or those members of a group that has historically been ‘ganged up’ on, have the right to defend themselves with a firearm. So those are the people that should be allowed to own firearms, right? ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/318 "2019-08-06T18:59:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > …It’s a right, and people ought to be free to exercise it, regardless of how you judge their “need”. This, too. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/319 "2019-08-06T19:00:40Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > People who are smaller and/ or less strong that assailants, or those members of a group that has historically been ‘ganged up’ on, have the right to defend themselves with a firearm. Prey should not be limited in self defense to equivalent devices that are strength and/ or agility dependent. Actually – this sounds like it might have a lot of potential. How about this – only women and minorities can purchase or own guns; white men aren’t allowed unless they’re under 5’4" and 135 lbs. Height and weight could be negotiable. Agreed? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/320 "2019-08-06T19:01:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Actually – this sounds like it might have a lot of potential. How about this – only women and minorities can purchase or own guns; white men aren’t allowed unless they’re under 5’4" and 135 lbs…? Height and weight coulc be negotiable. > > 😉 “that’s racist!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166.md?page=17)