# So what will it take for there to be serious gun control debate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2019, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166 "2019-08-04T09:51:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Rayks\_Marcial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47c2d/32.png) [@Rayks\_Marcial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayks_Marcial)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/141 "2019-08-06T04:59:16Z")
^ Work on removing the anger. Disarm a loony of his automatic weapons and he’ll come back with a car bomb. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/142 "2019-08-06T05:04:41Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Why do more mass shootings happen in the US, per capita, than most other countries? … I’m not so sure that they do: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXGgI2E5JUw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXGgI2E5JUw) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/143 "2019-08-06T05:07:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, but until I search I hadnt heard about Antifa. Huh. Well, just so we’re all on the same page: > [@](#): > > [A Twitter account that appears to belong to Dayton mass shooter Connor Betts retweeted extreme left-wing and anti-police posts, as well as tweets supporting Antifa, or anti-fascist, protesters. …](https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/us/connor-betts-dayton-shooting-profile) ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/144 "2019-08-06T05:09:07Z")
> [@Rayks\_Marcial](#): > > ^ > Work on removing the anger. Disarm a loony of his automatic weapons and he’ll come back with a car bomb. That’s all HD and his ilk hear is “let’s take away everyone’s guns” ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/145 "2019-08-06T05:16:34Z")
Make bullets expensive and illegal to make at home. It’s not unconstitutional because you still have your guns and access to (really expensive) bullets. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/146 "2019-08-06T05:22:49Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Make bullets expensive and illegal to make at home. It’s not unconstitutional because you still have your guns and access to (really expensive) bullets. What other constitutional right is taxed like this? That’s gonna be the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/147 "2019-08-06T05:24:57Z")
And tax the bejeezus out of guns so society can cover the costs. Like, a pistol should cost $500,000 or so. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/148 "2019-08-06T05:28:06Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Make bullets expensive and illegal to make at home. It’s not unconstitutional because you still have your guns and access to (really expensive) bullets. Make books expensive and illegal to make at home. It’s not unconstitutional because you still have your books. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/149 "2019-08-06T05:28:37Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Studies show that it’s not ethnic diversity that counts - it’s ethnic dominance. Think about, for example, Africa or South America. Singapore is quite diverse ethnically but has a very low crime rate. Canada is diverse - more diverse than the US, according to some studies - but has a lower crime rate than its southern neighbor. Okay, and I’m not saying you are wrong. Ethnicity was just an example off the top of my head. > [@](#): > > Countries with tougher gun laws have fewer gun deaths. This isn’t a difficult concept. I agree. No need to get snippy. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/150 "2019-08-06T05:29:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And tax the bejeezus out of guns so society can cover the costs. Like, a pistol should cost $500,000 or so. And tax the bejeezus out of blogs, newspapers,youtubes, podcasts etc so society can cover the costs. Like, a blog or youtube should cost $500,000 or so to put out. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/151 "2019-08-06T05:40:35Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > That’s all HD and his ilk hear is “let’s take away everyone’s guns” Not at all. As I mentioned in my post, I hear “variations on the theme” quite often. Sometimes it’s “let’s take away everyone’s scary guns” or “let’s take away everyone’s black guns” (or big guns or little guns or plastic guns). Other times it’s “let’s take away all the guns from poor people” (or men or white people or Republicans). In their more lucid periods, it’s sometimes “let’s just take away some of the guns from some people”. If liberals want a serious conversation about gun control, they might try proposing things other than various forms of “take away guns”. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/152 "2019-08-06T05:43:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Indeed, that was my reply. BA’s post gave stats out of context which gave a incorrect conclusion. Actually, overall, the states with the lowest homicides rates also have very little gun control. CA actually has a homicide rate exactly in the middle, not low at all. Does it or does it not make sense to you that even if one state has effective gun control that reduces deaths, it makes sense to have the same laws in neighboring states. IOW, that there is nothing magical about state lines, that gun control that works in one place will work another. That all one has to do if he lives in the most “gun controlled” state in the US but lives next to the least, is go across state lines for guns, thus rendering the laws in the first state less effective? > [@](#): > > So, you’d want to make a bunch of guns illegal , which could not possibly make a significant reduction in violent crime? Just because they look scary? I’d like to make all guns illegal that allow, among other things, **one to kill or maim 30 or more people in 30 seconds** , yes. Absolutely. And not because they look scary. Because, see bold portion. > [@](#): > > 2%? Well, that many people die from baseball bats, backyard pools, and bathtub accidents. Should we ban baseball, pools and bathtubs? Tens of thousands more than that die from alcohol or smoking. That may be so, but this is a thread about guns. I don’t think distractions and changing the subject is helpful. I simply ask because you are okay, then, with that 2% resulting in the number of deaths involved, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Rayks\_Marcial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47c2d/32.png) [@Rayks\_Marcial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayks_Marcial)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/153 "2019-08-06T08:04:11Z")
I have a feeling pro-gunners are willing to negotiate only if they can be assured of the right to own several (or unlimited number) of firearms and ammunition, and the right to own military-type weapons, to some degree. Allowing them the ownership of an unlimited number of firearms, or semi-auto weapons with high magazine capacity should be gradational; to be enforced by municipal LE. Qualifications would include a confirmed competition shooter, a long-time recreational shooter cum hunter with a clean record, a certified gunsmith, a certified firearms dealer, a retired serviceman or policeman also with a clean record. Here in my host country, the latest amendment to firearms ownership has cut the maximum number of weapons to 15 (licenses grade by number of allowable weapons, starting from one.) But sadly, qualifications for personal carry still follow the old argument of individuals who need protection; anything from certified public accountants, to businessmen, mediamen, etc. I find this crap. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/154 "2019-08-06T11:28:15Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Why would ‘a common person’ _need_ a Category D gun? > [@JXJohns](#): > > In the US they are used for hunting (pump action shotguns) sporting competitions (center-fire with detachable mags) etc. Plenty hunt with the AR-10. Just because you can’t find a use for them doesn’t mean there isn’t one. Dude, do you know what the word “need” means? It’s a pretty basic word, and kambuckta even highlighted it for you. Need - Verb 1. require (something) because it is essential or very important. Every single thing you mentioned in your response is a fucking hobby. Nobody “needs” their hobby. Every single thing you listed can also be done with a gun that isn’t in Category D, so nobody “needs” a Category D firearm, even to do those hobbies. The only task a Category D gun can accomplish that the other categories can’t is to pump a couple dozen bullets into a crowd without having to reload. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/155 "2019-08-06T11:34:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, but until I search I hadnt heard about Antifa. When I say that guns should be illegal, I mean that guns should be illegal for everyone, regardless of political ideology or mental state. I’m an equal opportunity anti-gun advocate. It’s unlikely to come to pass that Americans will give up their guns any time soon. But not because it can’t be accomplished from a practical standpoint. It’s because a very large proportion of Americans are cowardly, morally inferior and fundamentally ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/156 "2019-08-06T11:37:56Z")
BTW, can we agree that local gun control is simply worthless nonsense? Our country has literally more guns than people, there are vast areas of the country with little gun control, and there are no areas of the country that perform searches when entering or leaving the area. It is trivially easy for a criminal to get a gun, even in a municipality with strict gun control laws. Local gun control does absolutely nothing to control guns. At most, it increases the penalty for a criminal who is found with a gun, but it’s not like criminals really weigh how to commit their crimes against the penal code. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/157 "2019-08-06T11:57:46Z")
Want to stop mass shootings in the USA? Nuke the USA from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/158 "2019-08-06T12:09:15Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I thought Sandy Hook would start serious gun control debate in the US. > I mean - dozens of 6- and 7-year old kids! Surely that was the wake-up call? > > I was wrong. > > Then I thought the Orlando nightclub shooting would start serious debate. > 49 people dead, 50+ injured - surely that had to put things over the edge? > > I guess not. > > And then I thought surely, Las Vegas, with 58 people dead and -hundreds- injured. > This has to be the mass shooting that finally gets people to wake up to the fact that ‘thoughts and prayers’ won’t actually change anything. > > Wrong again. > > Now we’ve had two mass shootings within the same day. We’re barely making sense of 20 dead in El Paso, and now we have dozens killed or injured in Ohio. > > What’s the over/under on how many Republicans will insist that ‘now is not the time to politicize’ the deaths with talk of gun control? > > What will it take for there to be meaningful (i.e., Republicans actually on board) gun control debate in this country? Or are we stuck for another couple of decades waiting for the current old guard to die out? Other than the gotta do somethingism and the politicization of any tragedy (which is always wrong), gun control can be had when the people who want it come up with a way to legislate control away from those who shouldn’t have them without affecting those who are the responsible law abiding folks. Or get enough control of legislation to change the Constitution. That really is the answer, the only answer. To date, there have been zero laws, ideas, and/or appeals that do this. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/159 "2019-08-06T12:17:13Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > What other constitutional right is taxed like this? That’s gonna be the argument. You’re not entitled to afford a gun; you’re just entitled to possess one if you can afford it, no different from any other piece of property. Of course that doesn’t mean that today’s Supreme Court couldn’t pull a rationale out of its ass to rule such a tax unconstitutional - there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166/160 "2019-08-06T12:20:28Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Other than the gotta do somethingism and the politicization of any tragedy (which is always wrong), gun control can be had when the people who want it come up with a way to legislate control away from those who shouldn’t have them without affecting those who are the responsible law abiding folks. Or get enough control of legislation to change the Constitution. > > That really is the answer, the only answer. To date, there have been zero laws, ideas, and/or appeals that do this. Historically, gun control becomes more popular when more people of color possess guns. Maybe that’s what it will take: people of color so scared of, so fed up with, taking shit from white male racists that they make it clear they are not to be fucked with anymore. That will scare the shit out of whites, and even moderates will probably want some form of gun control then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-it-take-for-there-to-be-serious-gun-control-debate/838166.md?page=9)