I posted this here 6 years ago on a previous gun thread. I think it still applies.
*I think it’s too late.
I think guns have become ‘normalised’ in US society. People (many, not all) see guns as just a part of life - a tool, a toy to use as a hobby, or a security device. Like a car, or a camera.
Not only are people carrying them down the street, they expect others to be doing the same. Even those who don’t like guns and don’t want them, know that many folk are carrying. And if a problem arises, a gun is a viable option. Most of the time, it’s not used - but all too easily it is. Similarly, if people get depressed or angry, well, a gun is a possible way to ‘work out the aggressions’.
So when you see stories about 11-year olds shooting each other - that’s just acting ‘like a grown-up’. ‘Mummy and Daddy have guns, and I so I can use them if I need to’.
Sure, they should never be able to get hold of them, but it’s like those times when 12-year olds steal the family car - a car is a normal part of life, so the kids are ‘acting like grown-ups’. Do you really think, even if guns are properly locked up in a house, the kids don’t know where the keys are, and how to get hold of them?
In countries with restrictive gunlaws, guns are seen PRIMARILY as dangerous, restricted, very rarely encountered objects. Nobody (except those who actively do hunting or shooting - both minor activities) even thinks about guns. I still get a minor shock when I see policemen with visible guns in holsters. (And the numbers of civilians killed by Police in those countries is incredibly small compared with then US). People are horrified and disturbed by the thought of guns. Owning a gun still marks one out as a bit ‘different’ - even if a hunter or sports shooter. We have major investigations if a police revolver is even fired - it doesn’t matter whether it hits anybody.
I think it will have to be tackled as Tobacco was. Tobacco used to be normalised in society - now it has been ‘demonised’ (for want of a better word). If you want to fix the gun problem in the US (assuming people recognise there is one, and maybe the majority are happy with the status quo), it is at least three-step process.
Apply the common-sense, restrictive laws.
Education to ‘demonise’ - so that over time (many, many years) the product becomes considered as dangerous, stupid to use, and un-necessary.
Gun buy-back, amnesty - call it what you like - to remove guns from society.*
I’d just add the ludicrous ‘worship’ of the Constitution - as if it’s God’s Holy Orders, rather than an expression of common sense pertaining to the circumstances existing at the time it was drafted - doesn’t help. Every part of a Constitution, Bill of Rights (call it what you like) - should always be reviewable.
Just out of curiosity, do you feel the same way about immigration? Do you feel that you have to know everything about a country before you ban immigrants from that country, otherwise, you are just working off pure emotion, disdain, and hatred?
In a discussion I had elsewhere, I had someone tell me “the reason why so many people die from guns in the US isn’t lack of gun regulations, it’s cultural!,” to which I replied, “yes, and one of the biggest cultural factors is that too many Americans have an obsessive belief in the power of guns as a primary force for good and justice in our communities despite evidence to the contrary.”
It’s good to know that you and some unnamed sociologists have finally found the cause of mass shootings. What remains unexplained, however, is how come every other civilized country in the world that has a similar economy and social structure to the US has exactly the same media (e.g.- the main CNN feed or CNN International) plus their own media who report on these events in exactly the same way (including names and pictures of the perp(s)), yet they have virtually no mass shootings. It’s curious that every time I ask this question, there is no response.
I don’t know if you’re ignorant of firearms regulations in other countries and how they compare with the toothless and virtually pointless titles you listed, or just ignoring their existence and relying on your audience’s ignorance of those pieces of legislation, but either way, you’re wrong. For example, American gun advocates would go apoplectic if anyone even dared to suggest the kinds of gun laws that exist in Canada, and those are actually surprisingly unrestrictive compared to those in many European countries like the UK, where gun violence is consequently even more rare.
Every person alive who should be prevented from owning a gun was at some point someone who should have been allowed to own a gun. I don’t see your solution as workable.
There are something like 400 million guns in the possession of American citizens today. Last year, ~399.96 million of them didn’t kill anyone (and most of the minuscule fraction that did were suicides). Perhaps education and rational risk evaluation is exactly what’s needed.
I have no way of knowing specifically what “stuff” you are referring to. That’s a general term. What if I am cool with getting rid of some things but not others? That’s why I asked you to be specific.
Gee, good question. That’s a tough one. I mean, how would we register 300 million vehicles?
So your claim of ‘lots of mass shootings in other countries’ is a youtube video talking about a ‘peer reviewed study’ (and I use that term loosely) that didn’t disclose the data nor the sources? Riiiight.
I prefer my legislators to understand wtf they are talking about. That opinion doesn’t just pertain to the gun issue.
A perfect example is Kamala Harris’ three point gun control that she is promising to enact. Her third point is to ban AWs from import. Ok but this has been the law since 1989. Of course, that statement is raw meat to the gun control folks because they, once again, they have no clue. Most AWs in circulation are domestically produced and not imported.
It’s difficult to debate an issue when one side comes to the table woefully unprepared. It’s even worse when they don’t know or don’t care.
Not sure if you watched the whole video. You seem confused about who didn’t disclose their data. Here on this page you can find a list of mass shootings by clicking on the “incidents” tab. You’ll see that they provide dates, country, and a summary for each one. There are thousands outside the US.
While I agree that the ban on AW imports - on its own - would do little, cite for there currently being a ban on AW imports?
I love how gun nuts bat down every single proposal made with ‘oh, that won’t actually reduce deaths in any meaningful way’.
Very few single proposal, on its own, will move the needle that much - but lots of little steps can get us moving in the right direction.
Comparing the US to Nigeria, Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, West Bank & Gaza Strip, Sierra Leone, and Colombia doesn’t strike me as doing an apples-to-apples comparison.
Lots of countries have a higher rate of gun deaths and higher homicide rates than the US. Most of those countries don’t have five-figure GDP per capita.
18 U.S.C. section 925(d)(3) and the phrase you’re looking for is “generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes”, colloquially known as the “sporting purposes” test. You can find more information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968#Import_restrictions
A wonderful list of the part (half) of the glass that’s full. No mention of places like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sierra Leone, Namibia, Myanmar, North Korea, Mali, Nigeria, Timorleste, Philippines, Peru, Brazil, Colombia, Georgia, Ukraine, etc, etc?
You can ask WolfPup for more details but Canada was unable to complete a long gun registry. AIUI after 10 years or so it was cancelled. I’m guessing that that there are far fewer long guns in Canada than the 400 million guns in the US.
They did complete a handgun registry. I can’t find a total number of guns included on it however.
You may have read about that 3 point plan from me. Regarding the imports, her campaign says it…
The AR-15-style weapon was made my Sig Sauer and it think they still do import some weapons. Not sure. Anyway, it’s a typical political move. Ban imports, because that won’t piss of any voters who happen to make guns for a living in the U.S. But come out for banning guns in the country, that are made here, even temporarily? Never gonna happen. That was the point of my thread. Bring up shit that won’t address the problem, and pretend you’re actually doing something. As I said earlier, I think gun banning of certain types is the right track, but not half-assed ideas that only target imports.
If you want to argue that the United States is more similar to Lesotho and Belize than it is to Canada and Australia, go ahead. But you won’t convince many people. Most people are going to dismiss that argument as obviously unrealistic.
No need to get around the 2nd. You may own and carry a gun only if you are a member of the militia, and you must train and pass various tests on suitability to be a member. I realize that is not the current interpretation of the 2nd, but it is entirely consistent with what is written there. That is no more or less fiat than the current interpretation.