# So, what will the Iraq Study Group come up with? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351 "2006-11-14T03:48:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/1 "2006-11-14T03:48:28Z")
The [Iraq Study Group](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Study_Group) should be issuing its report soon, and W has pledged to give it serious attention. Any speculations? ---
**Author:** ![Mayo\_Speaks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mayo\_Speaks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mayo_Speaks)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/2 "2006-11-14T04:34:03Z")
**So, what will the Iraq Study Group come up with?** Flash cards? Mnemonic devices of some sort? There, that’s out of the way. Onto the serious discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/3 "2006-11-14T05:48:29Z")
[Study group members don’t have high hopes](http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/15987947.htm): > [@](#): > > After years of Bush administration rhetoric about establishing democracy in Iraq, Panetta said the only achievable goal is a rough stability, "which can’t be done by the military. It requires political reconciliation.‘’ > > One scaled-down goal, he added, is "how do you maintain a low-level civil war so it doesn’t blow up into a full-scale civil war?‘’ > [@](#): > > Both men expressed surprise that resentment of U.S. foreign policy in Iraq and elsewhere had not resulted in suicide bomb attacks inside the United States. > > "I too am puzzled by the fact that there haven’t been suicide bombers,‘’ Gates said. "That’s not an invitation, just an observation. We should count ourselves very fortunate.’ Not too optimistic, are they? Still, this AP headline:[“Bush Trades Ideas on Iraq With Panel”](http://www.qctimes.net/articles/2006/11/13/ap/headlines/d8lcjdf00.txt) leads me to hope that the commander in chief might use his chessplayer-like skills to come up with a dazzling way forward for both us, and the Iraqi people. [Tony Snow](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/11/20061113-4.html) is still adamant about victory > [@](#): > > Q Tony, when you talk about different strategies in Iraq, and listening to the Iraq Study Group, would you change your goal? And I know the goal is to win, or victory – but can you see yourself changing the definition of what victory might be? > > MR. SNOW: No. So the president _must_ have a brilliant plan, right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/4 "2006-11-14T06:04:45Z")
Yes. Victory. Which would be definitely brilliant. Brilliant, at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/5 "2006-11-14T08:21:03Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Yes. Victory. Which would be definitely brilliant. Brilliant, at the very least. [/QUOTE] I don’t know if I’m asking for a pitting but it seems to me that Iran and Syria have vested interests in Iraqi stability, can’t we entce them to help out? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/6 "2006-11-14T08:32:39Z")
[QUOTE=col\_10022] I don’t know if I’m asking for a pitting but it seems to me that Iran and Syria have vested interests in Iraqi stability, can’t we entce them to help out? [/QUOTE] [Syria might not.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/25/AR2006102501893.html) > [@](#): > > DAMASCUS, Syria – Horror at the bloodshed accompanying the U.S. effort to bring democracy to Iraq has accomplished what human rights activists, analysts and others say Syrian President Bashar al-Assad had been unable to do by himself: silence public demands for democratic reforms here. > > The idea of the government as a bulwark of stability and security has long been the watchword of Syrian bureaucrats and village elders. But since Iraq’s descent into sectarian and ethnic war – and after Israel’s war with Hezbollah in Lebanon, on the other side of Syria – even Syrian activists concede that the country’s feeble rights movement is moribund. > > Advocates of democracy are equated now with supporters of America, even “traitors,” said Maan Abdul Salam, 36, a Damascus publisher who has coordinated conferences on women’s rights and similar topics. > > “Now, talking about democracy and freedom has become very difficult and sensitive,” Salam said. “The people are not believing these thoughts anymore. When the U.S. came to Iraq, it came in the name of democracy and freedom. But all we see are bodies, bodies, bodies.” I’m not sure that Syria will want to lose such a propaganda tool. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/7 "2006-11-14T08:33:19Z")
Help me Ahmadinajad; you’re my only hope! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/8 "2006-11-14T16:03:19Z")
I’m guessing not much. That’s based on the presumption that the Bushiviks already have a pretty good idea whats cooking, and they haven’t been laying any groundwork. For instance, if they knew the report would be solidly “pro-victory” they would be underlining their committment to accept whatever the report says, even if it should go against them, because its comprised of\* bi-partisan \* wise men who have come to a\* bi-partisan\* conclusion based on _bi-partisan_…you know the drill. But they aren’t. So that ain’t it. Conversely, if they knew it would be one hundred percent Get the Hell Out of BaghDodge, Now! Now! Now!, they would be busily emphasizing that these guys are just spitballing here, throwing around some ideas. And, of course, for national securty reasons they aren’t privy to all the really sensitive intelligence, yadda blah yadda blah… So I figure the report will throw out a couple of ideas without actually endorsing any of them. Regional conferences sounds nice, means squat. “Phased withdrawal” sounds nice too, so long as it doesn’t have any of those dreadful timelines. “Put more pressure on the Iraqis” sounds good too. A phone call should do it. Maybe a surprise visit from Condi. Regardless, I expect the Bushiviks to do their very damndest to keep their options open for their preferred policy of hang on grimly and hope that it starts to rain ponies. Because the next six months will be crucial… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/9 "2006-11-14T21:45:30Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] So the president _must_ have a brilliant plan, right? [/QUOTE] Since we know what’s going to happen in the future (victory will be redefined) I think I can confidently parse ol’ Tony’s statement into NewSpeak. Tony Snow: No, I did not see **myself** redefining victory. That’s the President’s job. Next question? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/10 "2006-11-14T22:02:18Z")
I love the disconnect - one moment, the Bushies and their fan club are trying to isolate Iran because of its nuclear program, and making threatening noises at Syria for aiding Hamas and Hezbollah. The next, Administration supporters are hoping Iran and Syria will bail us out of Iraq. It would be high comedy if nobody was dying. Impeach Bush and Cheney. Then throw the worthless war criminals into Spandau Prison for the rest of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/11 "2006-11-14T23:12:27Z")
Probably something a lot like the Kerry platform. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/12 "2006-11-14T23:48:55Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Impeach Bush and Cheney. Then throw the worthless war criminals into Spandau Prison for the rest of their lives. Somehow, I doubt that those recommendations are going to appear in the Iraq Study Group’s report, though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/13 "2006-11-15T01:16:06Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] Help me Ahmadinajad; you’re my only hope! [/QUOTE] I nominate that as the best post on the situation so far. Funny, scary, and not too far from the truth! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/14 "2006-11-15T01:19:37Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] Somehow, I doubt that those recommendations are going to appear in the Iraq Study Group’s report, though. [/QUOTE] I guess it would be tough to get a ‘bipartisan’ group to sign on to that platform just yet. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/15 "2006-11-15T22:22:20Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Yes. Victory. Which would be definitely brilliant. Brilliant, at the very least. [/QUOTE] It’s a coming **luci** , it’s a comin! [Bush Initiates Iraq Policy Review Separate From Baker Group’s](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/14/AR2006111401095.html) > [@](#): > > President Bush formally launched a sweeping internal review of Iraq policy yesterday, pulling together studies underway by various government agencies, according to U.S. officials. > > The initiative, begun after Bush met at the White House with his foreign policy team, parallels the effort by the bipartisan Iraq Study Group to salvage U.S. policy in Iraq, develop an exit strategy and protect long-term U.S. interests in the region. The two reviews are not competitive, administration officials said… 😉😉 [sup]\*[/sup] The chess master is **on the Job!** [sup]\*[/sup] Winky winky added to emphasize that last sentence. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/16 "2006-11-17T20:01:20Z")
Apparently there are [rumors](http://www.suntimes.com/news/greeley/139682,CST-EDT-GREEL17.article) the Iraq Study Group is going to recommend putting a lot more troops into Iraq. Wonder how W would react to that? Is that exactly what he wants to hear, or exactly what he doesn’t want to hear? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/17 "2006-11-17T20:20:33Z")
Isn’t it likely that the ISG will present a list of options as in: If you want to achieve X, then do Y. If you want to achieve A, then do B. BTW, do we know when (if?) the findings will be made public? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/18 "2006-11-17T21:58:02Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] BTW, do we know when (if?) the findings will be made public? [/QUOTE] [December 11, I believe.](http://www.avantnews.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=312) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/19 "2006-11-17T22:21:50Z")
What will the ISG come up with? [What they’re told to come up with!](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1948748,00.html) As Brad DeLong often reminds us, the Cossacks work for the Czar: > [@](#): > > President George Bush has told senior advisers that the US and its allies must make “a last big push” to win the war in Iraq and that instead of beginning a troop withdrawal next year, he may increase US forces by up to 20,000 soldiers, according to sources familiar with the administration’s internal deliberations. > > **Mr Bush’s refusal to give ground, coming in the teeth of growing calls in the US and Britain for a radical rethink or a swift exit, is having a decisive impact on the policy review being conducted by the Iraq Study Group chaired by Bush family loyalist James Baker, the sources said.** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351/20 "2006-11-17T22:51:38Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] What will the ISG come up with? [What they’re told to come up with!](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1948748,00.html) As Brad DeLong often reminds us, the Cossacks work for the Czar: [/QUOTE] I guess that could account for so many U.S. soldiers suffering from [pre-traumatic stress disorder.](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55265) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-will-the-iraq-study-group-come-up-with/380351.md?page=2)