# So what's all this about Romney's tax returns being hacked? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 5, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796 "2012-09-05T21:54:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/61 "2012-09-06T13:32:31Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Bitcoin itself was not breeched. Bitfloor, a Bitcoin exchange had a backup server hacked and a bunch of wallet keys were stolen and the coins were then transferred out of those wallets. It’s like a bank being robbed versus the Fed being robbed or a US mint being commandeered. Ah. Thanks for the correction. That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/62 "2012-09-06T13:46:05Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Nothing, as far as I can see (other than it being, you know, wrong and illegal and stuff). If it’s a hoax, they have expended no effort so they can’t lose. Nobody gives them a bitdime? Meh, they go back to the office in the morning. If they have the goods and no one pays, they still get the satisfaction of being shit disturbers and affecting the election when they release the data. They get that satisfaction even if they don’t release the data – hell, even if they have no data (genuine or otherwise) to release. This escapade has reminded people of the issue, which is Excedrin Headache #87 for Mitt. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/63 "2012-09-06T13:58:30Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > The original pastebin post also says that they got the files off a network share, and when PWC finds out how, people will get fired. That part would be a hack. Then it says that not all of the files were in convenient electronic form, which is ambiguous. Were they electronic but not convenient? “Convenient” would be a TurboTax file (or the PWC proprietary equivalent). Presumably, these are something like a PDF “print”. Although why PWC would keep that form around, I don’t know (leading me to think fake). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/64 "2012-09-06T14:03:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, also: Why is this being reported as a “hack”? So far as I can tell from the original messages, there was no computer hacking involved: They physically sneaked into a building, then physically gained access to hardcopies of the returns (they say that they weren’t in a convenient electronic form), then scanned and saved them onto hardware to which they had legitimate access. Social engineering, sure, and lockpicking and related activities, likely, but hacking, no. According to [the Nashville City Paper account](http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/anonymous-group-allegedly-hacked-romney-tax-records-franklin-firm), the " you did not have them all in a convenient electronic form" statement was in the second message (which may or may not have been from the same people as the first). That said, the first message indicates (“During the night, suite 260 was entered, and all available 1040 tax forms for Romney were copied.”) that the purloined documents were duplicate hardcopies rather than electronic files. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Ok. Putting money into the account is pointless, since there’s no reason to believe the perps. So neither fund will hit $1 million. The perps won’t be caught because they won’t bother to access their Bitcoin bin. The password will be released on Sep 28: Republicans will predictably and legitimately cry foul and the Dems will piously and appropriately distance themselves from criminal behavior. The returns will reveal that Mitt had an offshore bank account and received Amnesty for illegal behavior. [Scenario](http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/07/17/romney_s_tax_returns_is_the_2009_swiss_bank_account_amnesty_what_he_doesn_t_want_us_to_see_.html). The returns will be studied and will fail standard forensic tests. They are forgeries. If the files are scans from duplicate hardcopies rather than direct electronic copies, that would complicate forensic testing, especially if the perp was knowledgeable enough to mung any image watermarks (a bit of Gaussian blur followed by a color reduction to black-and-white to make any watermark either stand out like a sore thumb or vanish completely). The other angle of forensic testing (checking the financial information in the alleged returns) would be impossible to verify without revealing the very things Mitt is trying to hide – he’d be reduced to saying “the experts I hired say it’s bogus; trust them”, which does not strike me as a terribly compelling argument in this political climate. ---
**Author:** ![SeparateChurchState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@SeparateChurchState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeparateChurchState)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/65 "2012-09-06T14:52:44Z")
It is no big secret Utah Senator Orin Hatch and other LDS faithful lawmakers seem to have convinced the US Government that only LDS/Mormon return missionaries are capable of reading, writing and speaking a foreign language. Yet when they return these missionaries test at only an intermediate level of fluency - thus federally funded statewide elementary school level mulitple languages immersion programs were established (in what appear to be predominately LDS neighborhood schools. These children are expected to have advanced level foreign language fluency upon graduation for high school). Mormon return missionaries (60,000 serving worldwide) have been recruited by the CIA and FBI for decades. It is quite interesting how most international abductions, assaults, and deaths of Americans abroad go unsolved for months if not years, but when a LDS/Mormon church member is kidnapped (Russia & England), killed (China), or assaulted (worldwide) the crime is solved by either the FBI/CIA in 7-14 days or less. My bets are on Romney’s hijacked tax returns mystery being resolved and the culprits arrested in less than 7 days. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/66 "2012-09-06T15:01:33Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The perps won’t be caught because they won’t bother to access their Bitcoin bin. They said they had help from someone who was working in the building. They even announced what floor the person supposedly worked on. How long do you think it’ll take the Secret Service to find that guy? ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/67 "2012-09-06T15:10:30Z")
So, the hackers have offered to release the info a million and also not release the info for a million. And both local party offices have conformed receiving a package and both said they turned the packages over to the FBI. I suppose the flash drive in the package could be blank. It’s hard to tell if the think is legit, but it kinda smells that way to me. How weird. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/68 "2012-09-06T15:20:02Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > So if someone pays them to release the returns, they make money. > If someone pays them to NOT release the returns, they make money. > > If nobody does anything, they make no money. What is wrong with this business model? Remove the first sentence, and it’s a straightforward extortion - there’s nothing any more wrong with the business model than with any other extortion attempt. > [@davidm](#): > > Supposedly an anonymous person or persons talked themselves into an office at Price Waterhouse Coopers and copied files containing a bunch of Mitt Romney’s tax returns. They claim that encrypted drives have been sent to various news outlets and political party offices. They’re demanding that $1,000,000 be deposited in a BitCoin account or they’ll release the encryption key. On top of that they’ve set up a second BitCoin account for the opposite. If somebody deposits $1,000,000 into that account they _will_ release the key. Which account receives the full million first will determine whether or not they release the key. If nothing is deposited anywhere they will release it on Sept. 28. Well, the money to keep the key a secret won’t be paid, for one very simple reason; what stops them from taking the money, and then releasing the key (or the unencrypted file) right before the election? For that matter, what stops anybody from claiming that they did this, and then releasing a fake set of returns the day before the election in hopes that just enough people will vote for Democrats for the House and Senate to give them something close to unbreakable control - “OOPS, my mistake, these were fake returns, but thank you for voting in the Democrats, and the Republicans aren’t going to get a ‘revote’ any more than the Democrats got one in Florida in 2000 after the ‘butterfly ballot’ fiasco.” ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/69 "2012-09-06T15:39:06Z")
Hell, if you wanted to pull off this scam, you don’t even need to have tax returns. Just encrypt the contents of a few blank usb drives (or drives filled with porn, if you’re feeling naughty), and follow the rest of the plan. If anyone deposits money in the accounts (not that I think anyone will), empty the bitcoin account. Afterwards, send them the passwords to their very expensive porn. At least, that’s how I’d do it. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/70 "2012-09-06T16:02:38Z")
“Pay me one million dollars and I will release the tax returns.” “I refuse to pay!” “Then I shall release the tax returns!” “You…BASTARD!” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/71 "2012-09-06T16:15:25Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > A million doesn’t seem like much to ask for, but what do I know? I’ve no idea what a bitcoin is. That was my thinking too. Better to put the actual drives and the codes on eBay and let the people who want to release the forms and the people who want to keep them a secret bid against each other. And we’ll start the bidding at. . . one MILLLLLLLLLLLLION dollars! ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/72 "2012-09-06T16:38:05Z")
A thought I just had: it’s mildly irritating that-- bluff, scam, or otherwise-- we’re having to spend money to deal with an issue that could have been headed off by Romney simply releasing his damned tax returns months ago, just like every other person to run for President since _his own father_. Now there has to be an investigation, law enforcement at all levels are going to be dealing with this, on and on. Is it a huge thing? No. Is it their job? Of course. Still, c’mon Mittens, get it together. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/73 "2012-09-06T16:51:44Z")
Don’t you see, Diosa? He’s creating jobs! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/74 "2012-09-06T16:52:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They said they had help from someone who was working in the building. They even announced what floor the person supposedly worked on. How long do you think it’ll take the Secret Service to find that guy? I’m sure it won’t take long to find the guy indicated by these clues. The question is: is the guy indicated by these clues: 1)the actual guy who did it or 2)some hapless sap who stole the actual guy’s red Swingline stapler or something? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/75 "2012-09-06T16:54:22Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > A thought I just had: it’s mildly irritating that-- bluff, scam, or otherwise-- we’re having to spend money to deal with an issue that could have been headed off by Romney simply releasing his damned tax returns months ago, just like every other person to run for President since _his own father_. Now there has to be an investigation, law enforcement at all levels are going to be dealing with this, on and on. Is it a huge thing? No. Is it their job? Of course. Still, c’mon Mittens, get it together. As much as I dislike Romney, and as much as I think he should release the returns, I really can’t blame him for the actions of a bunch of miscreants. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/76 "2012-09-06T17:05:50Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > A thought I just had: it’s mildly irritating that-- bluff, scam, or otherwise-- we’re having to spend money to deal with an issue that could have been headed off by Romney simply releasing his damned tax returns months ago, just like every other person to run for President since _his own father_. Now there has to be an investigation, law enforcement at all levels are going to be dealing with this, on and on. Is it a huge thing? No. Is it their job? Of course. Still, c’mon Mittens, get it together. It’s Romney’s choice. He’s not required or obliged to release more tax returns and he’s decided he would rather have people speculate and obsess about his finances then release the returns. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/77 "2012-09-06T17:05:51Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Hell, if you wanted to pull off this scam, you don’t even need to have tax returns. Just encrypt the contents of a few blank usb drives (or drives filled with porn, if you’re feeling naughty), and follow the rest of the plan. If anyone deposits money in the accounts (not that I think anyone will), empty the bitcoin account. Afterwards, send them the passwords to their very expensive porn. > > At least, that’s how I’d do it. Friendly amendment: Make it obesity-fetish/amputee-fetish scat porn. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/78 "2012-09-06T17:08:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s Romney’s choice. He’s not required or obliged to release more tax returns and he’s decided he would rather have people speculate and obsess about his finances then release the returns. Ergo, he must think there’s something in them that would hurt him even **worse** electorally – or even something which, if publicized, would lead to trouble for him even if and after he loses the election, e.g., widespread public demands for investigation by the USAG or a Congressional committee. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/79 "2012-09-06T17:11:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ergo, he must think there’s something in them that would hurt him even **worse** electorally – or even something which, if publicized, would lead to trouble for him even if and after he loses the election, e.g., widespread public demands for investigation by the USAG or a Congressional committee. I’m leaning more an more toward the theory that, out of sheer force of habit from years of playing eleven-dimensional Monopoly to make chunks of his income “not count”, he’s drifted into twentiething or thirtiething rather than tithing, and belatedly realized that public disclosure of the returns would make that evident. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796/80 "2012-09-06T17:12:03Z")
Here’s a thought. From the ABC article: > [@](#): > > PricewaterhouseCoopers acknowledged the scheme, first reported by the tech website Mashable, in a statement to ABC News. > > “We are aware of the allegations that have been made regarding improper access to our systems. We are working closely with the United States Secret Service, and at this time there is no evidence that our systems have been compromised or that there was any unauthorized access to the data in question,” the firm said. As far as I know they haven’t said “Mitt Romney is not a customer” or “no such files are stored at that location”. Plus they say that they are working closely with the Secret Service. If they have no such files there, wouldn’t they just say so? If they have no such files why would they be “working closely with the United States Secret Service”? If they have no such files there then hey, it’s bullshit, no reason to further involve PWC and focus instead on the web posts and the bogus ram drive deliveries. So it seems likely that Romney is a customer and they do have such files at that location (or at least accessible from that location) and that whoever is behind all of this is at the very least aware of the existence and location of those files. In fact, if they weren’t aware that those files were accessible at that location then the whole scam makes zero sense since it would be immediately exposed as a hoax. There would be no point in doing it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-all-this-about-romneys-tax-returns-being-hacked/633796.md?page=5)