# So what's happening now that gays can serve openly in the US military? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 9, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898 "2012-01-09T06:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/61 "2012-01-10T23:15:44Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I recall that there were predictions of mass migration out of the armed forces if DADT was repealed. Does anyone here know of anyone who actually left based on this? or was it more along the lines of people vowing to go to Canada if George Bush was re-elected. Were there mass migrations out of the military when they integrated blacks and women? I’m sure the same thing was predicted. I’m curious if there might be an uptick in enlistments, especially by gays. The DoD probably won’t track that. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/62 "2012-01-10T23:31:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Full Faith & Credit Clause requires states to recognize the acts of other states. It doesn’t require the federal government to recognize the acts of states, so Congress can make sure it doesn’t. The Constitution doesn’t give Congress any power over marriage or family law (except in federal territories & the District of Columbia); that matter is reserved to the states. Other than DOMA the only other time the federal government tried to define what constitutes a marriage was in the 19th century, when it outlawed polygam, that that was only in the federal territories. Ironically in the only place in the mainland US where Congress does have the power to ban same-sex marriage, the District of Columbia, it’s perfectly lega. > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Actually it isn’t. Until DOMA, the federal government has always left the definition of marriage to the states…Note also that the Constitution does not commit the power to make domestic relations law to the federal government… ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/63 "2012-01-11T01:52:35Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > When a person is complaining about a law that denies recognition and benefits to same-sex marriages, isn’t it a little bit pointless to say “Well, of course they can’t get the benefits of marriage - the law says they aren’t married.” _That’s exactly the problem being complained about._ Yes, you’re right. It’s just that the effects of gays being able to serve openly in the military has nothing to do with same-sex marriage rights. The complaint is off-topic. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/64 "2012-01-11T03:30:45Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > According to my dad, you put a boat on a ship. Except a submarine. 🙂 No, you can put a submarine inside the [Glomar Explorer](http://w3.the-kgb.com/dante/military/glomar2.jpg). And probably some other ships. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/65 "2012-01-11T03:44:32Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Of course, that’s because I served through the Canadian military’s rescinding of anti-homosexual rules, and despite predictions of doom, it was a non-event. It was obvious that it would be a non-event. We even had a discussion here on the board, 6 years ago, [when the first 2 gay Canadian Mounties got married](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=372272) (in uniform & everything). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/66 "2012-01-11T03:51:48Z")
Weren’t the first two gay Mounties also the first two Mounties? The way they’re shown in movies and TV I thought they were ALL gay. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/67 "2012-01-11T05:16:45Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > According to my dad, you put a boat on a ship. Except a submarine. 🙂 Not so fast there: [http://swittersb.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/blue\_marlin\_carrying\_uss\_cole-x.jpg](http://swittersb.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/blue_marlin_carrying_uss_cole-x.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/68 "2012-01-12T02:16:40Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Speaking as a vet, I think the differences in attitudes you’ll find in different occupational specialties is greater than enlisted vs. officer. The medical branches are one big gay party compared to your average tank unit or something, where just walking alone a night can be dangerous, gay or straight. I’m not clear. What are the members of a US Army tank unit going to do to someone minding their own business and walking alone at night? ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/69 "2012-01-12T09:42:53Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I’m not clear. What are the members of a US Army tank unit going to do to someone minding their own business and walking alone at night? Well, tankers _will_ steal your twinkies. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/70 "2012-01-12T14:33:07Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The Constitution doesn’t give Congress any power over marriage or family law (except in federal territories & the District of Columbia); that matter is reserved to the states. Other than DOMA the only other time the federal government tried to define what constitutes a marriage was in the 19th century, when it outlawed polygam, that that was only in the federal territories. Ironically in the only place in the mainland US where Congress does have the power to ban same-sex marriage, the District of Columbia, it’s perfectly lega. The Constitution doesn’t explicitly give Congress lots of powers it exercises, and Congress already legislates in many areas related to family law, such as child support enforcement. The fact that it hasn’t done something before doesn’t necessarily mean that it can’t do it at all. That is not to say that I think DOMA is _otherwise_ constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/71 "2012-01-12T14:43:34Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > So how long until a legally married gay couple takes their case to the Supreme Court to have their marriage recognized by DoD? Probably never. They are being beaten to the punch by civilians, who are already on track for taking it to the SCOTUS via the lawsuit in CA. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/72 "2012-01-12T15:39:02Z")
I’ve mentioned before that I often encounter retired military officers; they are friends of my sister whose husband was a military officer. I have been told that prior to DADT there were NO gay people in the military. As in NONE. When i told these people that they had, in all probability served with gay people without being aware of their orientation I was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about. It is a good thing, I think, that these people are retired. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/73 "2012-01-12T15:43:43Z")
Perhaps the repeal of DADT has spontaneously _created_ thousands of gays in the military that weren’t there before. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/74 "2012-01-12T15:55:22Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I’ve mentioned before that I often encounter retired military officers; they are friends of my sister whose husband was a military officer. I have been told that prior to DADT there were NO gay people in the military. As in NONE. When i told these people that they had, in all probability served with gay people without being aware of their orientation I was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about. It is a good thing, I think, that these people are retired. Feel free to share this thread with them: [For a moment, just a moment, DADT didn't matter - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=589140) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/75 "2012-01-12T15:55:25Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I’ve mentioned before that I often encounter retired military officers; they are friends of my sister whose husband was a military officer. I have been told that prior to DADT there were NO gay people in the military. As in NONE. When i told these people that they had, in all probability served with gay people without being aware of their orientation I was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about. It is a good thing, I think, that these people are retired. Well, according to Iranian President Ahmadinejad, there are no gay people in Iran either. I’m sure these retired officers love being in such august company. :smack:😃 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/76 "2012-01-12T16:25:40Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I’m not clear. What are the members of a US Army tank unit going to do to someone minding their own business and walking alone at night? It’s basically a case of bad neighborhood vs. good neighborhood. Getting mugged, raped, assaulted etc. is more likely near some living areas on base than others. Not always, not everywhere, and things are constantly getting better. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/77 "2012-01-12T16:59:02Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > It’s basically a case of bad neighborhood vs. good neighborhood. Getting mugged, raped, assaulted etc. is more likely near some living areas on base than others. Not always, not everywhere, and things are constantly getting better. Yeah, my suspicion is that the type of people responsible for this: > **[Rape in the US military: America's dirty little secret](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/dec/09/rape-us-military)** > > A female soldier in Iraq is more likely to be attacked by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire. Lucy Broadbent reports are not exactly the world’s most tolerant, and may engage in retributory rape of open lesbians on top of their general predation upon women. ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/78 "2012-01-14T05:22:27Z")
I get the same feeling - the social reactionaries are presently dazzled by the Republican primaries, but later, when some congress dude needs headlines . . . ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/79 "2012-01-14T06:12:29Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > The vessels Morale Welfare and Recreation committee tends to run contests and sales for morale boosting during a cruise - my husband got to pay to grow a beard one cruise, a moustache on a different cruise, and extra liberty days at liberty ports I thought the whole point of this change was that sailors wouldn’t have to deal with the expense of beards anymore. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898/80 "2012-01-14T17:06:51Z")
I can only speak for my tiny slice of the Army, but in my experience it’s been a total non-issue. Pretty much all it meant was everyone had to sit through an extra briefing or two, and, well, that was about it. On the downside that means that the quiet homophobia (ie, casually referring to people as fags, “that’s so gay”, etc) that runs absolutely rampant within the military also hasn’t changed. It’s still not a very good place to be anything other than a straight man. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I recall that there were predictions of mass migration out of the armed forces if DADT was repealed. Does anyone here know of anyone who actually left based on this? or was it more along the lines of people vowing to go to Canada if George Bush was re-elected. Well, when we were briefed on the repeal it was made clear that “I disagree with the repeal of DADT” is not a reason that’ll convince the Army to release you before your contract is up. You sign up for a certain number of years and need a very compelling reason to be separated before then. So Private Snuffy can dislike it all he wants, but he’s not going anywhere until his contract’s up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-happening-now-that-gays-can-serve-openly-in-the-us-military/608898.md?page=5)