# So, What's the Deal with Jehovah's Witnesses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 27, 2000, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385 "2000-12-27T16:15:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2001, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/61 "2001-01-02T22:27:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaspode \* > **Feynn** , **Avumede** > The JW’s problem with blood stems not from the OT restriction, but rather from Acts 15, 29 “You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.” > Abstainence in this sense obviously means something other then not eating or dealing with animal sacrifices, since you can’t eat sexual immorality, and it’s hardly an animal sacrifice. > (Or maybe that depends how you do it!) I’m not sure if I buy that, Gaspode. Abstain is a general word - it can certainly apply to a list of dissimilar items. I can abstain from sex and alcohol, and everyone knows what I mean I won’t drink alcohol, even though it’s obvious drinking is not like having sex. If it is about blood, the only way to abstain (at the time of writing) from blood is to not eat or not touch it. So again I ask, why don’t JW’s eat only koshered meats? ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2001, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/62 "2001-01-02T23:32:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avumede \* > \*\*So again I ask, why don’t JW’s eat only koshered meats? \*\* The JW proscription against consuming blood is against consuming **human** blood. Therefore, no transfusions. However, JWs will accept blood substitutes like blood plasma, which is blood with the blood cells removed, or saline solutions. This wasn’t true early on, but has come to be seen as acceptable, and has decreased problems for JWs in hospitals. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2001, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/63 "2001-01-02T23:38:54Z")
> [@](#): > > The JW proscription against consuming blood is against consuming human blood. Nope. From [http://www.watchtower.org](http://www.watchtower.org): > [@](#): > > 1. Blood is also sacred in God’s eyes. God says that the soul, or life, is in the blood. So it is wrong to eat blood. It is also wrong to eat the meat of an animal that has not been properly bled. If an animal is strangled or dies in a trap, it should not be eaten. If it is speared or shot, it must be bled quickly if it is to be eaten.—Genesis 9:3, 4; Leviticus 17:13, 14; Acts 15:28, 29. > > 2. Is it wrong to accept a blood transfusion? Remember, Jehovah requires that we abstain from blood. This means that we must not take into our bodies in any way at all other people’s blood or even our own blood that has been stored. (Acts 21:25) So true Christians will not accept a blood transfusion. They will accept other kinds of medical treatment, such as transfusion of nonblood products. They want to live, but they will not try to save their life by breaking God’s laws.—Matthew 16:25. ---
**Author:** ![One\_Cell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e95f7d/32.png) [@One\_Cell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_Cell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2001, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/64 "2001-01-02T23:41:27Z")
VileOrb: If you think that the JW are a bunch of loonies, then what do you say to goboy who considers Sauron and One Cell’s comments as “spewing anti-JW bigotry”? (See top of this thread). ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2001, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/65 "2001-01-02T23:51:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Nope. From [http://www.watchtower.org](http://www.watchtower.org): > > quote: > 5. Blood is also sacred in God’s eyes. God says that the soul, or life, is in the blood. So it is wrong to eat blood. It is also wrong to eat the meat of an animal that has not been properly bled. If an animal is strangled or dies in a trap, it should not be eaten. If it is speared or shot, it must be bled quickly if it is to be eaten.—Genesis 9:3, 4; Leviticus 17:13, 14; Acts 15:28, 29. > 6. Is it wrong to accept a blood transfusion? Remember, Jehovah requires that we abstain from blood. This means that we must not take into our bodies in any way at all other people’s blood or even our own blood that has been stored. (Acts 21:25) So true Christians will not accept a blood transfusion. They will accept other kinds of medical treatment, such as transfusion of nonblood products. They want to live, but they will not try to save their life by breaking God’s laws.—Matthew 16:25. I cannot add anything to what Andros posted here. About 30 years ago I suffered a sustained emostional assault from my (then) stepfather, who railed against the Witnesses, whom, he said, he hated “with a passion!” (cf. Matthew 10:34ff.) When I added postings to another thread on this topic, I encountered another assault, with maybe a shred of dignity my ex-stepfather used. Only they turned vicious and likened me to a lapdog or some such. So much for objectivity. There was only one difference, near as I can figure: My former stepfather was a drunkard (and is now, at age 74, likely to die from lung cancer). What is those Dopers’ excuse? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2001, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/66 "2001-01-02T23:54:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > The JW proscription against consuming blood is against consuming human blood. > > Nope. From [http://www.watchtower.org](http://www.watchtower.org): > > > [@](#): > > > > 1. Blood is also sacred in God’s eyes. God says that the soul, or life, is in the blood. So it is wrong to eat blood. It is also wrong to eat the meat of an animal that has not been properly bled. If an animal is strangled or dies in a trap, it should not be eaten. If it is speared or shot, it must be bled quickly if it is to be eaten.—Genesis 9:3, 4; Leviticus 17:13, 14; Acts 15:28, 29. > > > > 2. Is it wrong to accept a blood transfusion? Remember, Jehovah requires that we abstain from blood. This means that we must not take into our bodies in any way at all other people’s blood or even our own blood that has been stored. (Acts 21:25) So true Christians will not accept a blood transfusion. They will accept other kinds of medical treatment, such as transfusion of nonblood products. They want to live, but they will not try to save their life by breaking God’s laws.—Matthew 16:25. > > \*\* I couldn’t find the page where your quotes originated from on your link. I am interested in why Jehovah Witnesses have a prohibition against transfusion of their own blood. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/67 "2001-01-03T00:11:15Z")
[“Showing Respect For Life and Blood”](http://www.watchtower.org/library/rq/index.htm) There’s a lot of information on the site, but it’s fairly well-designed. Poke around a bit and you’ll find a lot more where that came from. As to why they are opposed to storing their own blood for future tranfusion, I have no idea, and the site doesn’t go into detail. All I see for justification is Acts 21:25 (NIV): > [@](#): > > As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. But I’m darned if I can figure out why it’s interpreted the way it is. You’d have to take it up with a JW theologian, I suppose ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/68 "2001-01-03T04:09:40Z")
Thankyou Andros. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/69 "2001-01-03T04:20:37Z")
Please see the following: [Delicious irony! I canvassed a Jehovah’s Witness!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46599) ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/70 "2001-01-03T05:01:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \*\*\* > Nope. > \*\* Yep. As a practical matter, JWs don’t keep kosher, and anything that can be purchased in a grocery store is fair game. Whatever official prohibitions exist, they’re loose enough that about all they won’t do is drink the blood of a freshly killed animal. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \*\*\* > As to why they are opposed to storing their own blood for future tranfusion, I have no idea, and the site doesn’t go into detail. > \*\* Because the blood has left one’s body, it’s no longer part of one’s body. Therefore, it’s being consumed if it’s reintroduced to the body, whether or not it was one’s own blood in the first place, and is forbidden. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/71 "2001-01-03T05:17:26Z")
I just have some very good advice for missionaries who go door-to-door: PLEASE have the courtesy to recognize when NOW isn’t a good time to talk religion with anyone. I’m talking about someone (me) who just got out of the shower, put a bathrobe over his totally nude body, and answered the door on the way back to his room downstairs. That time is NOT the time to ask me if I believe the Second Coming is imminent! I don’t care if you’re a Jehovah’s Witness, a Mormon, a hari krishna, or whatever. PLEASE say, “We’ll come back at a more suitable time,” rather than making the person answering the door uncomfortable in his scanty bathrobe that barely covers his upper thighs! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/72 "2001-01-03T05:20:04Z")
Cool. Thanks, **Hansel**. Makes sense that the bleeding of game restrictions would be moot with modern meat processing. ---
**Author:** ![Gaspode](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gaspode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaspode)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/73 "2001-01-03T09:55:03Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by hansel \* As a practical matter, JWs don’t keep kosher, and anything that can be purchased in a grocery store is fair game. Whatever official prohibitions exist, they’re loose enough that about all they won’t do is drink the blood of a freshly killed animal.[/qiote] Not true. JW’s won’t accept blood in any form. They won’t eat blood sausage and the ones I know won’t purchase blood based fertiliser for the reasons stated below. > [@](#): > > As to why they are opposed to storing their own blood for future tranfusion, I have no idea, and the site doesn’t go into detail. > > Because the blood has left one’s body, it’s no longer part of one’s body. Therefore, it’s being consumed if it’s reintroduced to the body, whether or not it was one’s own blood in the first place, and is forbidden. \*\* Part of the reason. For the ones I know there is also a conflict with the guiding principals of the OT, which says somewhere that an animals blood is to be buried. They beleive that storage of blood contradicts these principals. For the same reason they won’t purchase any blood based product such as fertiliser. JW’s don’t fololow the OT to the letter, but do believe in using it (fairly arbitrarily IMHO) for guidance on matters that are not clear. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/74 "2001-01-03T10:04:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snark Hunter \* > \*\*I just have some very good advice for missionaries who go door-to-door: PLEASE have the courtesy to recognize when NOW isn’t a good time to talk religion with anyone. I’m talking about someone (me) who just got out of the shower, put a bathrobe over his totally nude body, and answered the door on the way back to his room downstairs. > > That time is NOT the time to ask me if I believe the Second Coming is imminent! I don’t care if you’re a Jehovah’s Witness, a Mormon, a hari krishna, or whatever. PLEASE say, “We’ll come back at a more suitable time,” rather than making the person answering the door uncomfortable in his scanty bathrobe that barely covers his upper thighs! \*\* Heh, you should let them in, but also let your robe hang open a lot. It would be interesting to see how they react. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/75 "2001-01-03T10:13:05Z")
Hehehe, it’s not that I mind having missionaries of any faith come and visit me–after all, I’m an inactive Mormon myself and am interested in learning about other religions as well–but it’s the _timing_ of the thing. If these people had come just 5 minutes later, I would have invited them in and had a pleasant discussion with them. But with it all hanging out of my bathrobe, it just is not the time to talk about the Rapture and whether I’m ready for it! ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/76 "2001-01-03T15:46:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > , or that Anglicans believe in burning witches to death. > > Nah, today the recommended process is to earnestly discuss the virtues of Christians being affirming of other beliefs, tolerant, and inclusive until they become nauseous and vomit up the evil spirit that has possessed them. 😉 \*\* So THAT’S why you keep talking to me, Poly! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/77 "2001-01-03T19:31:18Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by dougie\_monty \* \*\* > [@](#): > > When I added postings to another thread on this topic, I encountered another assault, with maybe a shred of dignity my ex-stepfather used. Only they turned vicious and likened me to a lapdog or some such. So much for objectivity. > There was only one difference, near as I can figure: My former stepfather was a drunkard (and is now, at age 74, likely to die from lung cancer). What is those Dopers’ > excuse? :mad: > \*\* Anyone wishing to see the cause of dougie’s “poor me” post can hearken over to this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=23036](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=23036) It’s a pre-conversion thread, so it’s a little hard to read at times, but judge for yourself just how “unfairly” he was treated. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2001, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/78 "2001-01-08T12:11:16Z")
Gaspode- as promised, scriptures supporting the Deity of Christ. I won’t quote at length, most people probably have a Bible around somewhere, so you can look it up, but here are the chapter and verse locations, /w brief synopsis. John 20:24-29 In which Thomas, after having touched the nailprints in Jesus’ hands, and the spear hole in his side, falls to his knees and says “My Lord and My God”. Jesus accepts this worship, if He were a created being, he would have corrected Thomas, as the angel in Revelation 22:8-9 corrected John when he tried to bow down and worship the angel. Personhood/Godhood of the Holy Spirit- Acts 5:1-4 Peter asks Ananias “How has Satan have so possessed you that you should lie to the Holy Spirit…It is not to men you have lied, but to God.” This shows that the Holy Spirit is a full-fledged member of the Godhead, not merely an “active force”. Acts 13:2 brief, so I’ll quote it. “One day while they were offering worship to the Lord and keeping a fast, the Holy Spirit said"I want Barnabas and Saul set apart for the work to which I have called them.” Note, the H.S. speaks with his own voice, and it is the Spirit, as opposed to the Father, who called Saul and Barnabas, thus the H.S. is an independent person, not simply an “active force”. Anyhoo, you can check your own Bible for the complete text, but there’s chapter and verse references. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2001, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/79 "2001-01-09T02:26:36Z")
> [@](#): > > But with it all hanging out of my bathrobe, it just is not the time to talk about the Rapture and whether I’m ready for it! Well, that settles an eschatological question that’s been asked way too many times: obviously the Rapture will happen simultaneously with the Second Coming! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2001, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385/80 "2001-01-09T05:27:15Z")
To change the direction/add more JW oddities: my ex-fiancée and her family were (or are, I suppose) JWs. Not terribly stringent, but they did the tithing thing (10 or 20%, I don’t recall) and no blood or organ donations. They converted when she was about 10, IIRC, and she was apparently quite an adept student. Anywho, with me being a stubborn engineer, scientifically trained, logically inclined and a former-Roman Catholic, more importantly, with my father being all of the same save the last, I decided to do some research into the religion, knowing nothing of it, really. My folks, both of them, were really freaked out, telling me (with good reason, I think) that they looked at JW as essentially a cult and that I really should see what I was getting into. I wish I still had the reams of documents I copied, some of the stuff I found really does fit the description of a “cult,” but then again, all religions could probably seem the same in particular instances (if one considers “brainwashing” and attempts to influence every facet of the believers life). Please, no flames, I’m trying to tell you what I thought at the time and frankly, I don’t care about religion one way or the other, cult or not, as long as it doesn’t interfere with everyday life, especially mine. My ex- wasn’t too-too into it, you see, we had sex the first night we met, she got drunk and smoked on occasion, cursed and a did few other things, **but** I would get withering looks for saying god-dammit or jeez/geez (truncation of Jesus?!). I got a telescope and was showing her the stars and planets. I was explaining how the light we were seeing was thousands and millions of years old. She turned to me and straight-faced said, “No, the world is only 2,000 years old.” (I’m pretty sure it was 2,000, it might be 3,000, but you get the idea.) I asked what she meant and she went on to tell me how the Earth had been created a scant few thousand years ago. I asked about fossils and oil and how all that came to be. Again, she told me that God created it and put it in the Earth. No amount of documentation would shift her thoughts, she even said words to the effect of “‘Science’ makes those things up.” I didn’t talk science and we didn’t talk about her beliefs too much after that, we sort of agreed to disagree. Another thing I was curious about, I was under the impression that they weren’t supposed to date/marry non-believers? I had asked her fathers permission prior to asking for her hand in marriage and he approved, so…? One other thing, I asked about the “saved” ones (the 144,000) and how one knew of they were one. She said they just knew, that they would speak in tongues and flail about at times. Another withering look after I barked laughter at that one. :rolleyes: I never got to ask her what would happen when they did a count and figured out that 144,000 people had been accepted to be “the ones.” From that point, were the rest of them just screwed? Was there nothing they could ever do after that point and all followers from that point on were part of the un-chosen? Seemed kinda bogus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-jehovahs-witnesses/47385.md?page=5)